D&D 5E Is he evil?

M

Makiavel

First Post

• Oct 4, 2016

• #1

Players in my game got themselves caught in a good old bar fight. Flying chairs, broken bottles, etc. Everyone was fighting.

One of the bouncers, sword in hand, takes its chances against the Battlemaster. Bad luck, the Battlemaster keeps shoving and hitting him when he's down. The guy just can’t get up.

The PCs are clearly winning so the remaining "bad guys" scatter into the night. Everyone except our bouncer, who decide to yield.

Battlemaster "I kill him"

DM (me) "What?"

Battlemaster "I kill him"

DM (still me) "He's no threat, he's got his hands in the air"

Battlemaster "He tried to kill me, I kill him"

Coup de grace, bouncer's dead.

I didn't say anything and we kept on gaming and having fun. Now, thinking back on it, I keep wondering, was this act evil?

 

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UnknownDyson

Explorer

• Oct 4, 2016

• #2

He killed an unarmed defenseless opponent who did not wish to continue the fight. The bouncer was no threat to the battle master in this scenario yet he killed him anyway. Most definitely an evil act.

With that being said, the bouncer did draw a blade first. If the battle master would have killed him in the moment, you could frame that as self-defense. Killing him after the fact is cold blooded murder.

 

D

Dausuul

Legend

• Oct 4, 2016

• #3

Certainly not good. Evil... I dunno. The way I see it, if you pull a sword in a bar brawl, you don't have much complaint coming when someone else puts a sword in you. You could make a case that it was justified, surrender or not. After all, if you leave the guy alive, he'll do it again, and his next target might not be as good at self-defense.

On the other hand, that's a pretty rough-and-ready approach to justice. It's strongly chaotic at least. A 1E paladin would have some tough questions to answer.

 

Last edited: Oct 4, 2016

K

Krachek

Hero

• Oct 4, 2016

• #4

what matters is the next steps.

Do the battlemaster will do killing like that again and again?
Is there any witness to tell what happen?
Is there any friends who will try to avenge the bouncer?

You can pass, or use it to make a storyline.

 

Prakriti

Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you

• Oct 4, 2016

• #5

Is the Fighter evil?
A: Yes.
B. No.
C. There is not enough information to say.

Correct Answer: C.

Even if you agree that the Fighter's actions were evil (and I don't), there's a difference between being evil and committing an evil act. Being evil requires a pattern of behavior or a personal code. That is not the case here.

 

Fanaelialae

Legend

• Oct 4, 2016

• #6

It's certainly not a lawful good act. However, it isn't necessarily evil either. More context is needed to make that determination. Important details might include whether the battlemaster drew his weapon first (a sword isn't exactly a traditional bar fight weapon), and whether the bouncer was simply doing his job or was hoping to loot the fighter's corpse in the chaos. If the fighter had reason to legitimately believe that the bouncer was trying to murder him, then the act could be interpreted as some shade of neutral or perhaps even the darker end of chaotic good (if he truly believed that he could prevent future murders by killing the bouncer now).

 

Doug McCrae

Legend

• Oct 4, 2016

• #7

Did you want it to have a sort of Wild West barroom brawl vibe? Ie all in good fun and no one really gets hurt, even though the combatants are doing things that, in real life, would run a high risk of causing serious injury or death?

 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

• Oct 4, 2016

• #8

Makiavel said:

Players in my game got themselves caught in a good old bar fight. Flying chairs, broken bottles, etc. Everyone was fighting.

One of the bouncers, sword in hand, takes its chances against the Battlemaster. Bad luck, the Battlemaster keeps shoving and hitting him when he's down. The guy just can’t get up.

The PCs are clearly winning so the remaining "bad guys" scatter into the night. Everyone except our bouncer, who decide to yield.

Battlemaster "I kill him"

DM (me) "What?"

Battlemaster "I kill him"

DM (still me) "He's no threat, he's got his hands in the air"

Battlemaster "He tried to kill me, I kill him"

Coup de grace, bouncer's dead.

I didn't say anything and we kept on gaming and having fun. Now, thinking back on it, I keep wondering, was this act evil?

Click to expand...

Yes. The act was evil. As for the thread title, we don't know if he is evil or not. An evil act is not necessarily enough to determine if someone is evil or not.

 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

• Oct 4, 2016

• #9

I could see evil characters taking that route, and I can see chaotic characters taking that route. CG could easily say - he escalated to deadly force and tried to kill me, he needs to be put down.

Now, there can also be a question if it's lawful - not Lawful. Feel free to have the local sheriff come after him. "Look, he's the bouncer, it's his job to stop the fights, and sometimes that takes a blade. You killed him in cold blood after he surrendered according to the innkeep. Lay down your weapons and come with us."

At that point, you can find out if he's evil or not. As well as the rest of the party. Have fun with a courtroom scene with the party face arguing for his innocence, a pile of gold from the party changing the barkeep's testimony, them finding out the sheriff is a member of a cult, find out that the bouncer was the younger brother of a local paladin of renown who's out adventuring, etc.

In other words, run with it and find out what the characters are made of.

 

pming

Legend

• Oct 4, 2016

• #10

Hiya!

Yes, as others have said...it was an evil act. The bouncer was unarmed, surrendered, and of absolutely no threat. By the fighter's action of killing him, the fighter deliberately and with clear thought chose to end another sentient beings life. The fighter didn't give the bouncer a chance to repent, a chance to mend his ways, a chance to 'turn over another leaf and learn from his mistake'...the fighter took his life. On purpose. Because he was mad.

That's an evil act in my book. May not make the fighter actually evil, but it was an evil act. More of those and you will have an evil battlemaster in the group.

^_^

Paul L. Ming