Against Scry & Teleport

Loren Pechtel · Dec 9, 2016

My fix is simple: I do not let scrying give you the information you need to teleport. You scan scry-and-fry someone on territory you know (beware of hanging out in the lair of an escaped BBEG) but if all you know of the place is what you scried you can't use that for a teleport.

Greenfield · Dec 13, 2016

To many your "fix" could come across as arbitrary.

The Scry and Greater Scry spells both have duration long enough for a caster to look at the target area and cast the Teleport/Greater Teleport spell to go there.

To rule that a caster can't Teleport to a location they can see as they cast will feel like an unnatural imposition of "because I said so" into the game.

Now the DM always has the right to play that card, but it tends to come off as rather heavy handed.

As a general rule, when one of my players starts to get overly clever, I like to remind them that they aren't the first people in the world to see the potential for these spell abuses.

In my world, high end shops tend to have bead curtains across the entry way, so invisible people can't enter without giving themselves away. It's a simple foil for the third level caster who thinks Invisibility makes him/her the perfect Rogue.

Similarly, when people start to get highly placed enough that observation spells are an issue, they take precautions. The lead sheeting technique is low tech, not too involved, and if you take the book literally it even (somehow) lets the occupant know when someone attempts to Scry the area.

Many I know have played that the Forbiddance spell's password option allows people to not only enter without harm, but to Teleport in and out as well. You just have to incorporate the word into the spell casting and it works.

That puts that spell back into play as a defense against the unwanted guest, without being a prison.

Loren Pechtel · Dec 13, 2016

Greenfield said:
To many your "fix" could come across as arbitrary.

The Scry and Greater Scry spells both have duration long enough for a caster to look at the target area and cast the Teleport/Greater Teleport spell to go there.

To rule that a caster can't Teleport to a location they can see as they cast will feel like an unnatural imposition of "because I said so" into the game.

I handle it by saying you have to know where something is to teleport to it. Scrying doesn't tell you where the scene is, it's not enough. I likewise do not permit teleports based on a description of terrain.

I permit teleport to anyplace you have been, anyplace for which you have proper directions (anyone capable of teleporting to a location can give these directions, others can parrot them but are not able to create them) and anyplace specified as an offset from your location. (Be very careful with the latter!)

Greenfield · Dec 13, 2016

Ah, the Teleport spell description has a failure table with things like "Seen once" on it. if the caster can "Study carefully" they have a pretty good chance, by the rules as written, of landing where they are aiming.

Greater Teleport specifically says you don't even have to have seen it, that a good description will do. Your stated destination has to reflect a clear description that points to a relatively unique location.

You couldn't target "The nearest unguarded Dragon hoard.", for example, but you could say, "100 yards east of the east gate of Rajinpoor, on the south edge of the road.". Presuming that Rajonpoor has an east gate, and a road that leads up to it, those are valid Greater Teleport coordinates. Even if the PCs weren't sure there was such a city.

For both spells, "That room that I'm looking at" would have to qualify. You've seen it.

Now I'm just quoting the letter of the rules, as written. DMs are always free to add house rules as they see fit. That seems to be where you're going, and as long as everyone knows that you're applying a house rule, it's cool.

What isn't cool is when a player or team make plans, based on the rules as written, and then discover, mid execution, that those aren't the rules/

I had a DM I used to play with who had no problem running free and easy with RAW, when it was his guys doing things, then wracking the rules into knots when PCs tried the same thing. He literally couldn't see the problem, or even admit that there were two different sets of rules in play.

Like I said, I used to play in gis game.

Loren Pechtel · Dec 13, 2016

Greenfield said:
Ah, the Teleport spell description has a failure table with things like "Seen once" on it. if the caster can "Study carefully" they have a pretty good chance, by the rules as written, of landing where they are aiming.

Greater Teleport specifically says you don't even have to have seen it, that a good description will do. Your stated destination has to reflect a clear description that points to a relatively unique location.

Yeah, you're giving the rules as written. I just feel they tip things too much in favor of scry and fry and so I changed them.