Has anyone fixed range bands?

My kids are into Star Wars, so I picked up the FFG Star Wars books... hoping that we could try playing that. We have played a number of role playing games over the years, so are not new to RPGs. But, this was our first attempt at a Star Wars RPG.

A lot of the system seems fine. However, range bands were problematic from the get go. Even my kids wanted to know where things were and how far away they were. Range bands are completely broken. It feels like FFG was lazy and just hand waved combat. Supposedly short range goes out to about 10' (according to FFG forums). Blasters have a range of short... really? Blasters have a range of about 10'?

When you have groups in combat and all of the participants begin moving around, it is impossible to know at what range band any two combatants fall into. The system quickly breaks down. If we are going to continue to play this game, then I will need to convert range bands to realistic distances that makes sense. Has anyone here, who is more familiar with the system, already done this or know of a workable fix?

I haven't seen any numbers assigned. We have found them a bit intuitive. Sure, we have some discussion for clarity, but it really doesn't matter too much, we have found. You're usually engaged or short, medium is common.

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It is disappointing. They put a lot of thought into most of the game... except the mechanics of combat movement. If they had simply assigned realistic ranges to the bands, then it would have improved the game tremendously.

KahlessNestor said:

I haven't seen any numbers assigned. We have found them a bit intuitive. Sure, we have some discussion for clarity, but it really doesn't matter too much, we have found. You're usually engaged or short, medium is common.

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

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Short range is several meters so 20-30 feet and the only blasters with that range are hold-out blasters regular blasters are at least medium range.The range bands were meant to be abstract so you could theater of the mind or throw down a crude map and play.

X13Phantom said:

Short range is several meters so 20-30 feet and the only blasters with that range are hold-out blasters regular blasters are at least medium range.The range bands were meant to be abstract so you could theater of the mind or throw down a crude map and play.

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You can still use theater of the mind, or a crude map, if you have exact numbers. It just requires some eyeballing of distances, or approximate guesses on the part of the person running it.

Going the other way, starting from abstract range bands and trying to determine exact positions from that, is significantly harder. Depending on the specifics, it might well be impossible.

ddaley said:

My kids are into Star Wars, so I picked up the FFG Star Wars books... hoping that we could try playing that. We have played a number of role playing games over the years, so are not new to RPGs. But, this was our first attempt at a Star Wars RPG.

A lot of the system seems fine. However, range bands were problematic from the get go. Even my kids wanted to know where things were and how far away they were. Range bands are completely broken. It feels like FFG was lazy and just hand waved combat. Supposedly short range goes out to about 10' (according to FFG forums). Blasters have a range of short... really? Blasters have a range of about 10'?

When you have groups in combat and all of the participants begin moving around, it is impossible to know at what range band any two combatants fall into. The system quickly breaks down. If we are going to continue to play this game, then I will need to convert range bands to realistic distances that makes sense. Has anyone here, who is more familiar with the system, already done this or know of a workable fix?

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You can look at another Star Wars RPG and use the ranges from there. I was thinking about doing this.

ddaley said:

A lot of the system seems fine. However, range bands were problematic from the get go. Even my kids wanted to know where things were and how far away they were. Range bands are completely broken.

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Actually, I think they're an excellent fit for Star Wars gameplay, and FFG rules in particular. To quote Edge of the Empire (p.208):
Edge of the Empire relies on broad terms used to describe ranges and distances. Rather than have a player's attention focused on a grid, counting squares, Edge of the Empire uses more abstract means to represent position, distances, and ranges, thus allowing the players to focus on the action and the adventure."

It feels like FFG was lazy and just hand waved combat. Supposedly short range goes out to about 10' (according to FFG forums).

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Again, EotE p.208, 209: Short range indicates up to several meters between targets. Many thrown weapons and small firearms are most accurate at short range (noting that few thrown weapons can reach medium range). Two people can talk comfortably without raising their voices.

Blasters have a range of short... really? Blasters have a range of about 10'?

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So... not sure who on the forums would have said that but it's erroneous bunk. A HOLDOUT blaster is short range. An Ionization blaster is Short range. A disruptor pistol is short. All other blasters listed in equipment are at least medium range. Short range would be from one side of a bar room to the other (several meters). Medium range would be from one side of a hangar bay or warehouse to the other (several dozen meters). Long range would be more like the length of a sports stadium (OVER several dozen meters). For the kind of cinematic Star-Wars-ish action that the FFG system is trying to create you shouldn't need - or want - more detail than that.

When you have groups in combat and all of the participants begin moving around, it is impossible to know at what range band any two combatants fall into. The system quickly breaks down.

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This is not a bug - it's a feature. You don't have to count squares and you don't even need slick battle maps and counters. Just a piece of paper with a reasonable drawing of an area and something to note who is where - and then the GM can APPROXIMATE the distances and decide whether it's short, medium, long, or whatever. In fact, it might be a useful tool to look at the DIFFICULTY you'd like to see the players/opponents have to use rather than narrow it down to: x meters is short, x+1 meters is medium and if the terrain won't allow one or the other then tough noogies. Use the range you WANT it to be for the CHALLENGE you want it to be, rather than have a fight be easier or harder simply because of an imaginary line on the ground that says, "Beyond here be dragons and Long Range." If you want the PC's to get closer to the enemies then tell them they need to get closer for the range they want. Don't get bogged down in precision distance measurement.

If you dig through my posts on the Edge sub-forum over at FFG (username aramis), you'll find my patch for that...

I don't find anything wrong with the range bands myself:

Short: I have to step forwards to punch something, or it's hiding on the other side of the small room i'm in and I can shoot it over the crate.

Medium: It's hiding on the other side of a big room. I can shoot it, or move twice to punch it.

Long / Extreme: Shoot / Snipe, or let get closer til I can reasonably punch it.

Engaged: I'm already punching it. It can't hit me as easily bc it's being punched in the FACE. MOAR face punching!

See, it's simple.

It's simple in theory. But, when you have two or more groups engaged in combat and people begin moving around, it quickly becomes difficult to figure out who is at what range to whom. It is sad that they put so much work into the system, and then dropped the ball on combat ranges. We will either need to change the system ourselves or find another system to play. Starfinder is promising. Looks like the new Star Trek game will have the same broken range band system.

jimmifett said:

I don't find anything wrong with the range bands myself:

Short: I have to step forwards to punch something, or it's hiding on the other side of the small room i'm in and I can shoot it over the crate.

Medium: It's hiding on the other side of a big room. I can shoot it, or move twice to punch it.

Long / Extreme: Shoot / Snipe, or let get closer til I can reasonably punch it.

Engaged: I'm already punching it. It can't hit me as easily bc it's being punched in the FACE. MOAR face punching!

See, it's simple.

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