Alternative Class feature with similar "replaces"

Shin Okada

Explorer

• Dec 31, 2016

• #1

Can a same character choose two or more alternative class feature which have partially over-wrapping "replaces"?

For example, Armored Mage alternative class feature for fighter (in Complete Mage) has a "Replaces" which says,

Replaces: You lose proficiency with medium armor and heavy armor.

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And Hit-and-Run alternative class feature for fighter (in Drow of the Underdark) has a "Replaces" which says,

By selecting the hit-and-run alternative class feature, you give up proficiency with heavy armor and tower shields, even if you already have those proficiencies from another class. You can't gain either of these proficiencies by multiclassing later, but you can gain them by selecting the appropriate feats.

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I am wondering if a same character can select both of those class features by giving up medium armor, heavy armor & tower shield proficiencies.

 

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I

Igwilly

First Post

• Dec 31, 2016

• #2

I believe you can’t. Although I don’t remember where the rules say this, it’s the logical decision, and a character could become horribly broken if one can do that.

 

BlackSeed_Vash

Explorer

• Dec 31, 2016

• #3

I could definitely see a lenient DM allowing the two not because of the tower shield difference, but instead due to the clause stating you can only gain these proficients back by spending feats.

Personally, I see the situation as follows:
[1] Armored Mage has you give up x and y.
[2] Hit-and-Run has you give up x, y and z.
[3] Whichever alternate class feature you pick first, it deletes at least x and y and gives you it's class feature in their place.
[4] The other alternate class feature then looks for x and y to do the same, but since they are absent, it returns an error for no such class features present.

 

nijineko

Explorer

• Jan 16, 2017

• #4

No, once a particular class feature is gone, it's gone. However, there are ways of gaining back certain class features using other ACFs.

There is a list of Variant Class Feature Chaining here, and an ACF list here and here.

I didn't happen to see such lists here, so apologies for the extra-site links.

 

R

Random Bystander

First Post

• Jan 22, 2017

• #5

I would allow it under the condition that the player also give up their PC's proficiency with Light Armor. The same number if items is given up in that case. Examination of the character, player, and circumstance would also factor into the decision.

 

G

Greenfield

Adventurer

• Jan 24, 2017

• #6

By the wording, a rules lawyer could say yes.

When it say "you lose" X, it doesn't say that you're "trading" pr "Exchanging" X for some other featurejust that you won't have it. Thus you could be said to be doing without feature X no matter how many ACFs you took that called for it to be lost.

But then a Rules lawyer could argue that the "Dead" condition doesn't explicitly say characters don't get actions just because they're dead.

Any Dm interested in maintaining anything resembling game balance would say no.