Highest DPR at Level 1?

Zene · Jan 4, 2017

Hi optimizers,

I'm trying to figure out the highest-dpr Level 1 build. AL legal, so PHB+1, no UA, no DMG. Assume it's running Tier 1 modules, so enemy abilities and ACs appropriate to levels 1-4. Also assume short rests every 1-2 fights, and long rests every 4-ish fights.

Variant Human Fighter GWM is tempting, but I remember seeing an analysis that at L1, the -hit hurts more than you'd think, and so Vhuman Barbarian Polearm Master actually beats it. What are your thoughts? And are there any builds that would outperform those, like for example:

Vhuman Rogue with GFB?
Polearm master warlock for hex and eb turn one, and two hex melee hits in subsequent turns?
Wizard with magic initiate (hex) using a familiar for advantage, then spamming magic missiles 'til they're gone, and firebolts after that?
Something else?

Follow-up questions: What would be the highest-dpr build at level 2? And how about at level 3?

I realize I can do the math on these myself. But I wanted to throw this out there in case anyone's already thought it through, or has thought of better options I've missed.

Zene · Jan 4, 2017

Also, if a build has slightly lower DPR --like 1-2 average points-- but in exchange has significant other advantages (like much better survivability), that can definitely be a contender.

RulesJD · Jan 4, 2017

Why would you care? T1 AL Mods are insanely easy (with some very limited exceptions, none of which are in Season 5). The average DPR is going to depend a lot on which mod you're playing, so there's no one answer. You've already read as many power gaming builds as you can, so there's not much else that's new out there. Just go be yet another V.Human with GWM/Sharpshooter and hope you don't run into a DM that actually knows what they're doing.

Zene · Jan 4, 2017

Wow, that might be the most condescending answer I've seen on this sub-forum to-date. Congrats on setting the bar.

RulesJD said:
The average DPR is going to depend a lot on which mod you're playing

Yeah, obviously. It'll also depend on how the dice roll, who the DM is, and a number of other factors too. That's why it's called average.

RulesJD said:
Why would you care?

Mostly because it's an interesting thought exercise, and I thought it'd be fun to play. Partly because I find some T1 modules to take a disproportionately long amount of time to get through, so the idea of doing my part to help end combats more quickly (even when I'm the only L1 player at the table) appeals to me, even though I realize it'd only make a tiny amount of difference.

If this topic annoys you so much, don't feel like you have to respond further. Thanks.

Yunru · Jan 4, 2017

Variant Human Sharpshooter is highest IIRC, shortly followed by Variant Human Crossbow Expert.

For level 2, it's going to be a toss up between Fighter 2, and War Cleric 2. It depends how much accuracy matters. Barbarian might also be up there, being able to add Rage damage.

Rynic · Jan 5, 2017

The problem is GWM gives a penalty to hit, when adding the +10, a severe penalty at level 1.

If you're assuming a player can hit 100% of the time, then I would go Warlock, using hex combined with a non-proficient battleaxe or greatsword. If you still stand by GWM, then include that.

I've seen it (GWM) used before and it misses most of the time.

If you are counting to-hit modifiers, then magic missile is a sure thing. 100% success 2.5 x 3 + 3 (10.5)

Greg Benage · Jan 5, 2017

Assuming baseline 65% hit chance:

Variant Human Wizard, Dex 16, Sharpshooter, light crossbow, owl familiar for advantage: 11.63 DPR
Variant Human Rogue, Dex 16, Dual Wielder, rapiers: 11.49 DPR
Variant Human Fighter, Str 16, Polearm Master, GWF style: 10.41 DPR
Variant Human Fighter, Str 16, Great Weapon Master, greatsword, GWF style: 9.38 DPR + bonus-action attacks on kills
Variant Human Fighter, Dex 16, Sharpshooter, longbow, Archery fighting style: 8.975 DPR

For Sharpshooter, owl advantage is better than Archery. You'll have some attacks without advantage when your owl is out of position or dead, but you'll have AoE damage to more than make up for it.

For the rogue, DPR drops to about 10 if you can't afford two rapiers, at which point you're much better off with Crossbow Expert. (Many would say 120 ft. range is better than 1.5 DPR at 1st level, and they would be right. But you asked for DPR.)

Yunru · Jan 5, 2017

Greg Benage said:
Assuming baseline 65% hit chance:

Variant Human Wizard, Dex 16, Sharpshooter, light crossbow, owl familiar for advantage: 11.63 DPR
Variant Human Rogue, Dex 16, Dual Wielder, rapiers: 11.49 DPR
Variant Human Fighter, Str 16, Polearm Master, GWF style: 10.41 DPR
Variant Human Fighter, Str 16, Great Weapon Master, greatsword, GWF style: 9.38 DPR + bonus-action attacks on kills
Variant Human Fighter, Dex 16, Sharpshooter, longbow, Archery fighting style: 8.975 DPR

For Sharpshooter, owl advantage is better than Archery. You'll have some attacks without advantage when your owl is out of position or dead, but you'll have AoE damage to more than make up for it.

For the rogue, DPR drops to about 10 if you can't afford two rapiers, at which point you're much better off with Crossbow Expert. (Many would say 120 ft. range is better than 1.5 DPR at 1st level, and they would be right. But you asked for DPR.)

VHuman Sharpshooter Fighter is better than that, why would you be using a longbow?

16 Dex, Sharpshooter, Heavy Crossbow, Archery
50% chance to hit, 1d10+13 per hit.
9.25 DPR, not that drastic an increase, but significant at such low numbers.

Also the Wizard's disingenuous as the Owl has to survive, or it's advantage for one turn/combat.

Assuming the same as above, but also that Hex would only have to be cast/transfered every other turn, and that combat lasts 4 turns:
VHuman Dual Wielder Warlock, Dual Rapiers.
65% chance to hit. Alternating between:
2 attacks at 1d8+1d6+3 and 1d8+1d6;
and 1 attack at 1d8+1d6+3
DPR: 9.75

Of course, the Rogue has the advantage of being able to apply similar damage without cost, be it spell slots or action.

Yunru · Jan 5, 2017

VHuman Barbarian w/Polearm Master 16 Str, raging.
65% accuracy.
2 attacks at 1d10+5 and 1d4+5.
DPR: 11.7

Winner, ladies and gentlemen

Greg Benage · Jan 5, 2017

Yunru said:
VHuman Sharpshooter Fighter is better than that, why would you be using a longbow?

16 Dex, Sharpshooter, Heavy Crossbow, Archery
50% chance to hit, 1d10+13 per hit.
9.25 DPR, not that drastic an increase, but significant at such low numbers.

Also the Wizard's disingenuous as the Owl has to survive, or it's advantage for one turn/combat.

Assuming the same as above, but also that Hex would only have to be cast/transfered every other turn, and that combat lasts 4 turns:
VHuman Dual Wielder Warlock, Dual Rapiers.
65% chance to hit. Alternating between:
2 attacks at 1d8+1d6+3 and 1d8+1d6;
and 1 attack at 1d8+1d6+3
DPR: 9.75

Of course, the Rogue has the advantage of being able to apply similar damage without cost, be it spell slots or action.

Yeah, good call on heavy crossbow. So 9.25 rather than 8.975 for the fighter Sharpshooter. The wizard isn't "disingenuous." The owl has Flyby and keeping it alive isn't at all difficult at 1st level. If it dies, the wizard can recast as a ritual. And finally, I noted that you'd lose advantage on some attacks because the owl is dead or out of position, but you'll still come out ahead of the fighter Sharpshooter.

I didn't consider limited resources such as Rage 2/day or hex 1/day. I was focusing on at-will damage.