D&D 5E Map of the Great Wheel Cosmology

Cristian Andreu · Jan 12, 2017

D_E said:
My understanding is that it was introduced in the Gates of Firestorm Peak, where it was a distant crystal sphere (and possibly also a distant time, the Vast Gate is said to be able to bridge any distance through both space and time).

Ohh, you are correct; it was in Firestorm Peak, not White Plume Mountain. I had my mountain-related D&D modules mixed together.

D_E said:
BTW, I think the illithid world Penumbra is usually shown as an Alderson disk-like structure surrounding Truespace's sun, but I don't know if that was in the original adventure (Dawn of the Overmind). None of the adventure summaries I've found mention it.

I'm also pretty sure to have read about that somewhere, but when crafting the map I couldn't find the source in any of my Spelljammer or Planescape books (it's probably at the bottom of a single paragraph set in the corner of an art-heavy page purposely made to be missed. I had to read and re-read so much stuff to find details on all those worlds that it's not even funny, but I admit it added to the sort of esoteric mystery behind the cosmology), so I decided to leave it as a nondescript standard earth world until I could confirm it.

If anyone remembers where the reference is, I'd be very appreciative.

D_E · Jan 12, 2017

Cristian Andreu said:
Ohh, you are correct; it was in Firestorm Peak, not White Plume Mountain. I had my mountain-related D&D modules mixed together.

Understandable

I'm also pretty sure to have read about that somewhere, but when crafting the map I couldn't find the source in any of my Spelljammer or Planescape books (it's probably at the bottom of a single paragraph set in the corner of an art-heavy page purposely made to be missed. I had to read and re-read so much stuff to find details on all those worlds that it's not even funny, but I admit it added to the sort of esoteric mystery behind the cosmology), so I decided to leave it as a nondescript standard earth world until I could confirm it.

If anyone remembers where the reference is, I'd be very appreciative.

The original reference is either in the Illithiad (the 2e version of the 3.5e Lords of Madness) or the Dawn of the Overmind Spelljammer adventure (also 2e, which Google leads me to believe was the last of a trilogy of adventures alongside the Illithiad and using the material therein).

I KNOW I bought a copy of the Illithiad at one point, but I can't find it now. At the time I was disappointed by how much of it had actually been reprinted in Lords, and didn't end up reading it closely. I don't remember seeing anything about Penumbra in there, but see previous sentence

.

HOWEVER:

I have located a discussion concerning the size of Truespace as depicted in Dawn of the Overmind, which includes quotes from the adventure and confirms that Penumbra was an Alderson disk in that adventure as well.

______________

An unrelated note: Did you place the Rock of Bral anywhere? Is it too small? My understanding is that it was never assigned a specific sphere (and included explicit instructions to the DM to place it in whatever sphere he wanted it for his campaign), so it should probably be in the "Worlds Without Known Crystal Spheres" section.

______________

P.S.: Do you know about The Guide to the Spheres? It attempts to bring together references and info for all the canonical Crystal Spheres, though it does include info from systems other than 2e D&D. It lists Dawn of the Overmind as the source for Penumbra, which would suggest that it has indeed been a disk starting from its earliest appearance.

Sword of Spirit · Jan 13, 2017

Speaking of illithid, there is an interesting idea I ran across, but I have no idea where, and haven't been able to find it.

The idea is that the illithid may actually be the future evolution of humans, who then traveled back in time for some reason. I know the time travel part is in one version, but the idea that they actually evolved from humans is the really disturbingly interesting part I haven't been able to locate any source for.

D_E said:
P.S.: Do you know about The Guide to the Spheres? It attempts to bring together references and info for all the canonical Crystal Spheres, though it does include info from systems other than 2e D&D. It lists Dawn of the Overmind as the source for Penumbra, which would suggest that it has indeed been a disk starting from its earliest appearance.

I think that's a really great source, although I don't really like including the Hackjammer stuff.

Speaking of which...does anyone have a Phlogiston map that attempts to include all the 2e canonical lore, without including any Hackjammer or fan material? I can find some really pretty and useful looking maps, but they include all that non-official stuff. And I can find some canon-only maps, but they tend to have a bare fraction of the material that is out there--like a dozen spheres or less.

dagger · Jul 17, 2017

Hi,

How do you think this would look if it was printed out at about 3' by 3' on vinyl in full color?

THank you!!

Hussar · Jul 18, 2017

Cristian Andreu said:
/snip

Interesting detail: There are 482 different realms that are canonically part of the cosmology (between worlds, planes, demiplanes, and crystal spheres).

Good grief.

dagger · Jul 18, 2017

Its awesome

Shemeska · Jul 19, 2017

There's a number of Demiplanes missing. The Isle of Black Trees for instance and the Clockwork Gap.

That said, this is absolutely gorgeous and you're an awesome person for having made and shared this. I wish that they'd used something like this for 5e rather than trying to retain chucks of 4e's cosmology and continuing to mess with planar continuity in the process.

dagger · Jul 20, 2017

My friend or myself is looking at printing this out on vinyl in the near future, probably doing to do 3' x 3'.

Demetrios1453 · Jul 20, 2017

Shemeska said:
There's a number of Demiplanes missing. The Isle of Black Trees for instance and the Clockwork Gap.

That said, this is absolutely gorgeous and you're an awesome person for having made and shared this. I wish that they'd used something like this for 5e rather than trying to retain chucks of 4e's cosmology and continuing to mess with planar continuity in the process.

Well, we're closer back to the old 2e version than we have been... since 2e actually. The Astral doesn't touch the Inner Planes any more, the Ethereal does and has the Deep Ethereal again, and the Paraelemental Planes are back (if not named as such). It would be fairly easy to ignore both the Elemental Chaos as well as the more "livable" regions of the Inner Planes as presented in the DMG if you wanted to; if you do that, you'll just need to recreate the Quasielemental planes, and you're basically back at the 2e model (well, other than moving the Feywild and Shadowfell, but those are changes I'm fine with, although your mileage may vary...)

Cristian Andreu · Aug 9, 2017

Sorry for the long delay. I lost access to my account and I hadn't changed the recovery mail since 2004! Took me months to figure how to log back in.

D_E said:
Understandable

An unrelated note: Did you place the Rock of Bral anywhere? Is it too small? My understanding is that it was never assigned a specific sphere (and included explicit instructions to the DM to place it in whatever sphere he wanted it for his campaign), so it should probably be in the "Worlds Without Known Crystal Spheres" section.

It's not in the diagram. I set a minimum size of, I think, 100 miles (can't remember right now; I'd have to check my research notes) for objects to show up (mainly because the Astromundi Cluster would have been impossible to fit), but I thought about making an exception for the Rock of Bral. However, as you mention, the Rock does not have a unique location, and instead was meant to be moved to wherever the DM wanted.

______________

D_E said:
P.S.: Do you know about The Guide to the Spheres? It attempts to bring together references and info for all the canonical Crystal Spheres, though it does include info from systems other than 2e D&D. It lists Dawn of the Overmind as the source for Penumbra, which would suggest that it has indeed been a disk starting from its earliest appearance.

Yes! Paul Westermeyer's Guide to the Sphere was a very helpful resource (I listed it on the bibliography used to create the diagram), particularly since it helped me to check all the references I might have missed. I did leave out the Hackmaster parts, though, since I wanted to focus exclusively on AD&D 2e canonical material. An excellent document, very thorough.

dagger said:
Hi,

How do you think this would look if it was printed out at about 3' by 3' on vinyl in full color?

THank you!!

Hey there!

The main problem I think you migth encounter are the colours; I drew it in RGB and for printing you'd prefer CMYK, as the colours you see on the screen do not necessarily correspond to what a printer will produce. Maybe a small-size test could help determine how it'll look.

Size-wise, it should look fine. It's drawn at 300dpi, so it measures almost exactly 3x3 ft. Text blocks ought to be legible at that size as well, though the more crowded crystal spheres might need checking from really close.

Shemeska said:
There's a number of Demiplanes missing. The Isle of Black Trees for instance and the Clockwork Gap.

That said, this is absolutely gorgeous and you're an awesome person for having made and shared this. I wish that they'd used something like this for 5e rather than trying to retain chucks of 4e's cosmology and continuing to mess with planar continuity in the process.

Glad you enjoyed it.

As for the missing demiplanes: I'm always on the hunt for more information. However, while I cannot recall the Isle of Black Trees (I'll check it out!), I do seem to remember the Clockwork Gap showing up in a Dragon Magazine well into 3e, while the diagram is limited only to AD&D 2e stuff.

Though maybe there's an older version that I'm missing! Do you know if it showed up during 2e in any capacity?