D&D 5E rope trick questions

Hi all,

Last session, the PCs entered a green dragon's lair and killed the first lot of guards. The PCs could hear more reinforcements coming, so the wizard cast rope trick and they all climbed inside so they could take a short rest.

Both the dragon and one of its minions can cast detect magic. You can only target a creature or an object with the spell, rather than an area, so can either of them detect the existence of the rope trick at all? Would the entrance to the extradimensional space count as an object? The PCs will have undoubtedly pulled up the rope, so it won't be visible either.

As an aside, I note that the description of the rope trick "window" states that it's centered on the rope. That makes me wonder what happens when you pull the rope completely inside the space. Does it just hover in the middle of the window, or does the window close?

Also, while magic can't pass through the window, can sound? You can see out of it, but can you hear what's going on outside the space as well?


I'm just trying to figure out if the dragon and its minions can detect the PCs, and thus prepare an ambush for them, or if they have no recourse but to be surprised when the PCs reappear.

Sorry, don't answer trick questions.

Tony Vargas said:

Sorry, don't answer trick questions.

Click to expand...

You got my hopes up for nothing!

OK, real answer:

pukunui said:

Both the dragon and one of its minions can cast detect magic. You can only target a creature or an object with the spell, rather than an area

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Huh? Detect Magic is Range:Self. It lets you sense magic. You sense the Rope Trick or it's 'window,' surely. You may not be able to use your action to 'see' a glow around the rope (which is the target of the Rope Trick) since you can't see into the extra-dimensional space it now occupies, so you may not know exactly where the 'window' is, just sense when you're w/in 30' of it.

As an aside, I note that the description of the rope trick "window" states that it's centered on the rope. That makes me wonder what happens when you pull the rope completely inside the space. Does it just hover in the middle of the window, or does the window close?

Click to expand...

It sounds like the window is 'open' in the sense of being able to see out of it, and the rope is in the center of that 'window' as if it were resting atop it.

Also, while magic can't pass through the window, can sound? You can see out of it, but can you hear what's going on outside the space as well?

Click to expand...

It says you can see out, but not in, and that 'attacks and spells' can't cross into the space. There are spells & attacks that /are/ sound (sound burst, frex), so no sound either way sounds(npi) fair. But you could safely rule either way. Maybe the sounds will seem 'far away,' because of the extra-dimensional boundary, if you can hear.

I'm just trying to figure out if the dragon and its minions can detect the PCs, and thus prepare an ambush for them, or if they have no recourse but to be surprised when the PCs reappear.

Click to expand...

Detect, definitely. Exactly when & where they'll re-appear to set an 'ambush' when the PCs can watch what there doing through a window? Maybe not so much, it'd have to be set up fairly cleverly, hard to do if you rule that they just detect the presence, not the exact location, of the Rope Trick effect...


...oh, something else that just occurred to me, for the Rope Trick to work, it has to extend the /whole/ length of the rope. So cut your rope to the height of the ceiling! ;P If that's over 30', you're out of range of detect magic from a caster on the ground....

Tony Vargas said:

OK, real answer:

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Huh? Detect Magic is Range:Self. It lets you sense magic. You sense the Rope Trick or it's 'window,' surely. You may not be able to use your action to 'see' a glow around the rope (which is the target of the Rope Trick) since you can't see into the extra-dimensional space it now occupies, so you may not know exactly where the 'window' is, just sense when you're w/in 30' of it.

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Right. Thanks for clarifying that bit. I must not have read it properly.

It says you can see out, but not in, and that 'attacks and spells' can't cross into the space. There are spells & attacks that /are/ sound (sound burst, frex), so no sound either way sounds(npi) fair. But you could safely rule either way. Maybe the sounds will seem 'far away,' because of the extra-dimensional boundary, if you can hear.

Click to expand...

Hmm. OK. I'll have to think about it. I'm not sure it's come up before. I may have already ruled one way or the other and have just forgotten (this isn't the first time they've used rope trick in enemy territory).

Detect, definitely. Exactly when & where they'll re-appear to set an 'ambush' when the PCs can watch what there doing through a window? Maybe not so much, it'd have to be set up fairly cleverly, hard to do if you rule that they just detect the presence, not the exact location, of the Rope Trick effect...

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Well, in this case, they've put the rope trick up in a cave with only three ways in and out. The bad guys can set up watchers at each exit.

...oh, something else that just occurred to me, for the Rope Trick to work, it has to extend the /whole/ length of the rope. So cut your rope to the height of the ceiling! ;P If that's over 30', you're out of range of detect magic from a caster on the ground....

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Good point. Better go see how high the ceiling is ...

pukunui said:

Both the dragon and one of its minions can cast detect magic. You can only target a creature or an object with the spell, rather than an area, so can either of them detect the existence of the rope trick at all?

Click to expand...

I'd say that detect magic would let you sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you but not be able to see a faint aura around anything since the rope trick's entrance and rope are invisible once pulled up into the space.

So you'd be able to sense some transmutation magic around you but not be able to tell where or what it is essentially.


Yan
D&D Playtester

I agree with Plaguescarred ... to a point.

With Detect Magic, you can sense the presence of magic within 30 feet. So far, so good. Next part is that you can use your action to see a faint aura around visible objects. Since the rope trick isn't visible, you can't see the aura. If you can't see the aura you can't learn it's school of magic.


Detect Magic
For the duration, you sense the presence of magic within
30 feet of you. If you sense magic in this way, you can use
your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature
or object in the area that bears magic, and you learn its
school of magic, if any.


So the group is going to have guards and a pissed off dragon waiting for them. Green dragons are quite intelligent, so depending on the size of the cave it can probably figure out exactly where the source of magic is by moving around until they no longer sense magic and circling the area. If the roof of the cave is high enough, it could even deduce the point in space.

Oh may be you're right how i read it was that you could learn it's school of magic if you could sense magic, not see the aura.


If you sense magic in this way,

you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic,

and

you learn its school of magic, if any.


The ITS school in the last sentence refers to magic or aura?



Yan
D&D Playtester

Plaguescarred said:

Oh may be you're right how i read it was that you could learn it's school of magic if you could sense magic, not see the aura.


If you sense magic in this way,

you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic,

and

you learn its school of magic, if any.


The ITS school in the last sentence refers to magic or aura?



Yan
D&D Playtester

Click to expand...

I read it as you know the school because you see the aura.

Of course the big take-away here is that the party is probably getting set up for an ambush. Even without knowing the aura, there are only so many things that are going to be detectable yet invisible and most of them only have a duration of an hour or so.

Oofta said:

I read it as you know the school because you see the aura.

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If multiple interpretation is possible from the reading then neither is necessarily wrong isn't it? We could be both right in our assertion i don't know i admit it's too grammatical for my non-native english knowledge


Yan
D&D Playtester