Skill Utilities and Their Impact on Play

Manbearcat said:

Avenger is an interesting pick for hybrid. I can see how you would have gone there.

Personally, I like Warlord for several LotR characters. Gandalf as Invoker/Lazylord, Aragorn as Ranger/Warlord (Paladin Multiclass), Frodo as Princess Warlord.

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Aside from my Avenger choice the rest are how I have designed them

Manbearcat said:

Alright, how about this for an Epic (level 26) tier go at Gandalf.



For the rest of it:

1) Fill out with relevant feats (12 left).
2) Fill out Attack Powers with Radiant/Force stuff/Angel companions refluffed as eagles and Lazylord stuff.
3) Divination Rituals to go with Augury.
3) Magic items for sword/staff and Divinations.

That should do it. Tons of inspiring buffs for allies, lore stuff, tons of knowledge and the ability to help allies because of it, divinations/prophecy, bring allies back from the brink/plot device stuff, giant eagles. All of the "Angel-themed" stuff in 4e comes with flight so you'd either have to (a) stay away from it (which I did) or (b) refluff it (wings are eagles or some kind of trick).

Beyond that, I'm out of town for a few days so I won't be updating this thread with a Crucial Advice until probably Sunday.

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Gandalf needs his cantrips is one of my grumbles... with my designs so far. I made a feat inspired by the one which enables gaining 3 cantrips like the Wild Talent Master feat inspired by that LOL.

I am going to have to re-make the Creative Character Build Collection perhaps as a Blog on here or I will host it on my own site perhaps...

It's about interesting and classic characters not optimized ones

Oh but I did Frodo with rogue hybrid abilities mostly just to help the rings invisibility ... and with feats that help nerf the rogue damage to being undermine the enemies.

Alright then. How about another?

Crucial Advice - Ranger 2
You are wise in all things. The sooner your friends realize this, the safer and better off they’ll be.
Encounter Martial
Immediate Reaction Ranged 5
Trigger: An ally within range that you can see or hear makes a skill check using a skill in which you’re trained
Effect: Grant the ally the ability to reroll the skill check, with a power bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier.

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Let's go with this guy:

Some Dude
level 2 Human, Ranger/Warlord (multiclass Paladin)

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +9, Endurance +7, History +10, Nature +8, Perception +10, Stealth +8

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Power Source/Keywords: Martial Power Source so you're drawing upon your years/decades of training in various disciplines.

Refresh/Action Economy: Encounter. So this is available every scene. Further, it doesn't require a pro-active expenditure of a Minor Action (for the often action-intensive Ranger). Its just your Reaction (albeit, most Rangers are tricked out with a plethora of circumstantial Reactions as well).

Archetype Enablement: What if this guy was a sworn guardian of a wee one? What if he was charged with leading a fellowship, fraught with novices and exploration-amateurs, through the perilous wilderness? Does this look like something that might be central to his thematic portfolio?

Survey says? YES!

Noncombat scene resolution (the Skill Challenge):

Lets just be original and imagine that Some Dude is leading his charges (a pack of 4 wee noobs) through a scary wilderness to a sanctuary. Lets say a pack of horrible undead are trailing them, drawn by...some...thing they are carrying. Their exhausted feet slow their egress, but he has to keep them moving because the dead do not rest. They aren't used to long journeys, but they're stout little buggars. DCs @ level 2 = 9, 13, 20. Complexity 2 SC @ Level (6 success, 2 secondary skills, 5 moderate, 1 hard DCs). Two contributions for this guy here.

a1) Pace slows. The sounds of the undead pack's eerie screams reverberate in the night sky. Do they pick a defensible location? Do they hole up? Create a diversion? No. He spurs them on, shows them the way, and they keep moving. Group Endurance Check DC 13. They need 3 of the 5 to pass. He passes with a 6 or better himself. They probably each require somewhere around a 10 or 11. Maybe one of them is particularly stout and courageous! He only needs a 6. So, if that one fails, he can mechanically give him a reroll with +2 (the best option) and then they only need 1 of the other 3 to pass.

a2) What if one of your little guys gets stabbed by a poisoned blade and the only way stave off the poison is a rare weed. These nubs you're leading don't know that (their Nature check may actually be decent but this is a tough one...lets say +8). Well, they do now that you're around! This is the hard DC of the challenge. Your insight turns a 45 % chance of success into a ~ 80 % chance of success!

Combat Stunting:

Trained in Athletics and Nature? That is a healthy chunk of stunting enablement for allies. How about we go with History (I'll go with that for LotR rather than Religion) for this one.

They Fear Fire or Running Water! - At-Will Terrain
Standard Action - Ranged 5
Check: History (medium DC) to remember the enemy's reluctance to go near fire.
Success: The enemy is afraid of fire!
Target: One creature within 3 squares of the campfire
Attack: Level +3 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 +3 fire damage, the target gains vulnerable 5 to fire damage and you slide the target 3 squares away from the fire.

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Combat Application:

Pretty straight-forward.

- 1/Scene Reaction to allow an ally a 2nd chance to escape grapples on failed Athletics checks.
- 1/Scene Reaction to allow an ally a 2nd chance to succeed at a relevant Countermeasure (Athletics, Endurance, History, Nature of that bunch) to avoid Hazard or Trap effects.

EDIT - had to adjust some stuff as I failed to account for the (scaling) +2 power bonus (Wisdom) to reroll.

[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] What do you think of the "new" cantrip skill swaps. Is it just me or do they seem like utility powers of higher grade and not really cantrips.

Garthanos said:

[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] What do you think of the "new" cantrip skill swaps. Is it just me or do they seem like utility powers of higher grade and not really cantrips.

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Answered this in your other thread so I won't rehash here.

I was thinking of doing another of these. Do you (or anyone else) have a Race/Theme/Skill Power that is a Skull Utility that you'd like me to do that I haven't already done?

Hmmm thinking something i am not sure the value of ... but like the flavor of.

Practiced Rider.

The concept of abilities that enable lesser actions to do more than they normally could within the realm of skills seems interesting.

Elude Senses?

Garthanos said:

Practiced Rider.

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darkbard said:

Elude Senses?

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Hokey doke. I'll get to these in the coming days. I'm posted out at this point (today was probably my most prolific posting day in 4 years).

Alright, I'll do Practiced Rider today and Elude Senses next. Both very niche powers.

Practiced Rider - Nature 6
So familiar are you with the saddle, you can spring to or from your mount in a flash.
At-Will
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You mount or dismount a willing, adjacent creature that has the mount keyword.

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Refresh/Action Economy: At-Will. So this is available every scene, on demand. What is typically a Move Action to mount or dismount becomes a Minor Action.

Archetype Enablement: You're a cowboy. You're a Hun, Mongol, Dothraki. You're a knight or a Paladin.

Noncombat scene resolution (the Skill Challenge):

This is interesting. I'm imagining the infamous Schrodinger's Gorge scene from my last game. It starts with the Rogue pilfering the idol from the Zehir-snakemen temple. His horse is tied up in a copse of trees nearby. As he is making his egress, a pack of hyenas smell the horse and begin stalking it and yapping. This drew the attention of snakemen sentries. The Rogue has to make a classic Western getaway on horseback in the midst of all hell breaking loose. The chase is on.

This, of course, was a Skill Challenge (hence Shrodinger's Gorge at the end as, a much scrutinized, exemplar of the Fail Forward technique). If the Rogue would have had Practiced Rider, due to the correlating fictional trigger, I would have given the player a +2 bonus for this moment of resolution in the SC.

Another sort of circumstantial bonus would come about on ranged or melee attacks from the saddle in an SC or navigating precarious topography while you're trying to avoid incoming fire and locate subtle trail-signs while you're in the middle of a mounted chase. This would have come in very handy in that SC! Shrodinger's Gorge may never have been a thing!

Combat Stunting:

This one is difficult. I'm wracking my brain to try to think of a combat stunt that this Skill Power would directly enable or would otherwise facilitate. I mean, there would be plenty of combat stunts that a mount/rider could potentially perform, but none that I can think which would directly be opened up/augmented by Practice Rider.

Combat Application:

Pretty straight-forward. When once you had to spend your Move Action to mount/dismount (and then would have to decide to Move using a Standard or use that Standard to attack), you now always have your Move + Standard available. That is lovely when you have a 10 Speed Horse. Or if you're He Man Paladin with a Celestial Battle-Tiger (with a +10 Acrobatics and + 10 Athletics where you don't need to move to qualify for a running jump). Or how about a 10 Fly Speed Griffon or Silver Dragon Steed. Now, in the span of a single turn, you're vertical and possibly (with the Run Action or Speed augment) beyond the reach of nearly all terrestrial-bound creatures (save for bowmen).

Manbearcat said:

Alright, I'll do Practiced Rider today and Elude Senses next. Both very niche powers.



Refresh/Action Economy: At-Will. So this is available every scene, on demand. What is typically a Move Action to mount or dismount becomes a Minor Action.

Archetype Enablement: You're a cowboy. You're a Hun, Mongol, Dothraki. You're a knight or a Paladin.

Noncombat scene resolution (the Skill Challenge):

This is interesting. I'm imagining the infamous Schrodinger's Gorge scene from my last game. It starts with the Rogue pilfering the idol from the Zehir-snakemen temple. His horse is tied up in a copse of trees nearby. As he is making his egress, a pack of hyenas smell the horse and begin stalking it and yapping. This drew the attention of snakemen sentries. The Rogue has to make a classic Western getaway on horseback in the midst of all hell breaking loose. The chase is on.

This, of course, was a Skill Challenge (hence Shrodinger's Gorge at the end as, a much scrutinized, exemplar of the Fail Forward technique). If the Rogue would have had Practiced Rider, due to the correlating fictional trigger, I would have given the player a +2 bonus for this moment of resolution in the SC.

Another sort of circumstantial bonus would come about on ranged or melee attacks from the saddle in an SC or navigating precarious topography while you're trying to avoid incoming fire and locate subtle trail-signs while you're in the middle of a mounted chase. This would have come in very handy in that SC! Shrodinger's Gorge may never have been a thing!

Combat Stunting:

This one is difficult. I'm wracking my brain to try to think of a combat stunt that this Skill Power would directly enable or would otherwise facilitate. I mean, there would be plenty of combat stunts that a mount/rider could potentially perform, but none that I can think which would directly be opened up/augmented by Practice Rider.

Combat Application:

Pretty straight-forward. When once you had to spend your Move Action to mount/dismount (and then would have to decide to Move using a Standard or use that Standard to attack), you now always have your Move + Standard available. That is lovely when you have a 10 Speed Horse. Or if you're He Man Paladin with a Celestial Battle-Tiger (with a +10 Acrobatics and + 10 Athletics where you don't need to move to qualify for a running jump). Or how about a 10 Fly Speed Griffon or Silver Dragon Steed. Now, in the span of a single turn, you're vertical and possibly (with the Run Action or Speed augment) beyond the reach of nearly all terrestrial-bound creatures (save for bowmen).

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As an action economy thing it is rather directly a combat arena benefit, skill challenges like a chase scene, are a good example that also could have action economy benefits just not so directly or explicitly, I actually do find chases to be relatively common so that value seems like it could come up with a frequency which is far from negligible.

As for combat stunts hmmm improvised leaping on someones mule and spur it into a nasty kick towards some end or perhaps using the mount as a spring board for a high leap.