D&D 5E I hate rapiers. Do you?

Eubani · Mar 30, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
How do you even get through the day?

With nothing left unsaid. Whilst I said most of that in jest it must also be said that martial classes have been treated unfairly by designers over the years. There have been double standards, they have lacked agency and utility and they have lacked identity and flavor. Once something was designed for them more often and not they were beaten up and had their stuff stolen. There is a reason that Fighters in earlier editions was described as a caddie for spellcasters. I would also say meat shield but they were never (till the edition that we dare not speak of) given the tools to do so. So after saying what I think needs be said I get through the day with a pep in my step.

Tanarii · Mar 30, 2017

Hussar said:
Yup, on that list, how many of those are common or uncommon? Devils, Demons, beholders, nearly everything on your list is rare or very rare. True, not all. The beetles are common or uncommon. Surprisingly some of the smaller dragons are only uncommon A couple of the smaller giants also are uncommon.

But, out of the 350 monsters in the 1e monster manual, even if we include everything on your list, only about 1/4 to 1/3 of monsters have AC's of 3 or less, and nearly all of those are the rarest monsters in the game. Conspicuously absent from that list are all the humanoids, for example.

So, yup, I'm going to stand by my point here. Most of the monsters in AD&D had AC's worse than 3. And longswords were by far the most commonly used weapons (obviously by those that can use them).

You both missed how those tables work anyway. The AD&D 1e weapon modifiers vs AC tables are only used against armor or armor-like creatures. They don't apply to generic monster AC. What DOES apply is weapon damage vs size, and that's what made AD&D 1e Longswords king: 1d12 damage vs L creatures. Well, besides the best magical weapons all being Longswords of course.

JackOfAllTirades · Mar 31, 2017

They can have my BladeLock's rapier when they pry it from his cold, dead fingers.

BookBarbarian · Mar 31, 2017

JackOfAllTirades said:
They can have my BladeLock's rapier when they pry it from his cold, dead fingers.

Wouldn't he just re-summon it?

Satyrn · Mar 31, 2017

BookBarbarian said:
Wouldn't he just re-summon it?

Once the cleric resurrects him, yes.

Rolenet · Mar 31, 2017

Skeletons.

I apologize in advance for lost productivity, but reference.

JackOfAllTirades · Apr 1, 2017

Satyrn said:
Once the cleric resurrects him, yes.

Sadly, the bond with the weapon is broken if the Warlock dies. Resurrection is over-priced, though. I keep my friendly local vengeance paladin paid up in advance for on the spot revivification. He also covers revivification for innocent bystanders killed by errant eldritch blasts, area spells, and demons that get out of control. It's a good racket.

ExploderWizard · Apr 1, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
For the record, I love the Dungeon World system, in which damage die is determined by class not weapon. Fighters can use table forks if they want.

The B/X Companion for basic D&D has a similar variant. In a class based system I agree that overall martial competence ( including accuracy, damage, and defense) should primarily be based on class. Following class as the primary driver, STR should be the stat that modifies damage of all but device fired missile weapons period and DEX should modify accuracy with all weapons. Thus a highly skilled fighter who hits for great damage would need both a good STR and DEX as it should be, but even a fighter with average STR and DEX should be vastly superior to a wizard in martial combat with similar attributes.

Cap'n Kobold · Apr 3, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
I would only want a particular weapon to affect "riposte" if that were a default mechanic that anybody could use, and some weapons just made it better.

Still means that someone wishing to optimise riposting is going to feel forced into picking the rapier, if the bonus is a meaningful one.

Yeah but that's "player choice optimization" not mathematical optimization, which is fine. The whole point (for me) is to let players choose the weapon they want for flavor, rather than feeling they have to pick the statistically optimal one. My rogues sometimes dual wield daggers: I'm willing to give up the 1 point of damage (per hit) because I like daggers. But I wish I didn't have to make that trade-off. I wish I could say, "Yeah, but daggers give me X. It's not possible to compute the numerical value of that, so I don't know whether it's better or worse than other choices, but it's close enough that I don't have to feel I'm making a bad choice."

Something like "Yeah, but daggers let me deliver Sneak Attack without having to get into melee. It's not possible to compute the numerical value of that, so I don't know whether it's better or worse than other choices, but it's close enough that I don't have to feel I'm making a bad choice.""?

Guest 6801328 · Apr 3, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
Still means that someone wishing to optimise riposting is going to feel forced into picking the rapier, if the bonus is a meaningful one.

Right, but (see below) as long as Riposte isn't obviously the best stat, if the player is doing that because he just thinks it would be great to have really high Riposte, that's fine. If, on the other hand, the theorycrafters have all determined that Riposte is the God stat then this isn't good.

In general this works best when all stats have diminishing returns.

Something like "Yeah, but daggers let me deliver Sneak Attack without having to get into melee. It's not possible to compute the numerical value of that, so I don't know whether it's better or worse than other choices, but it's close enough that I don't have to feel I'm making a bad choice.""?

Odd example, but sure. Or maybe. In general I think that features that are situationally useful (e.g. Reach) are the hardest to theorycraft, especially when the frequency of the situation can't be predicted with any accuracy. (I love feats like Mage Slayer.)

D&D 5E I hate rapiers. Do you?

Do you like the way 5e has handled rapiers?

Absolutely not! I hate, hate, hate the way 5e has handled rapiers.

I dislike 5e rapiers so much I have houseruled a nerf on them.

I like rapiers, and I eat paste.

I only participate in polls with leading questions.

Eubani

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BookBarbarian

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