The Party Death Spiral -- a flash back

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
[h=2]THE PARTY DEATH SPIRAL[/h]


D&D has always been anti-death-spiral at its core - you didnt get gradually worse with inevitable death as an individual hit points acted as a buffer preventing it ...

However death spirals still exist in D&D how is that possible? Easy its the party Death spiral where a character death weakens the over all party and generates a cascade failure.
4th edition has increased intra-party synergy some and this is very cool in so many ways and appropriate however it does increase the likelihood that one players character going down can take ot the entire party because the whole is indeed greater than the sum of its parts.

TPKs are generally not fun and for the most part they mess with everyones story DM and player alike... removing synergy and dependence isn't a good solution its like removing a layer of all the time fun trying to prevent an incident of un fun.
My solution involves a Trope called the Conservation of Ninjutsu = I wont link to tvtropes.org that is evil but I will employ plausibility deniability to let you do it to yourself.

Note In fiction this occurs among the heroes not just the adversaries a group of - You see what happens when one hero goes down? they get flash backs of relationships and moments with that hero they become emotionallly inspired etc. They are enraged / or driven..
This effect doesn't necessarily happen all at once after all everybody gets there turn for a spot light... and it is often a reflection of the hero how he affects his allies.

Solution in Simplest Form : The player can when there character is down / disabled operate in a fashion like a defacto LazyLord creating various support effects and maintaining the action economy of the fight. It keeps the player involved in the tactics of the fight.
The idea is just because your character is out of the fight you the player are not.

[h=3]More than One Bird with a Single Stone.[/h]
Players don't like characters being disabled for long duration make sense as it takes them out of the play - deprives them of choices removes their vehicle of influence.
However with all the deadly tools being employed sometimes it also makes sense within the narrative for this to happen... by finding ways to allow the player to influence play even while their hero/avatar is disabled. We solve multiple goals.
This concept improves the acceptability of longer term character disabling effects whatever their flavor... One element of implementation might involve giving characters powers which require they be disabled or down to varying degrees. It could even open other possibilities for fun. Heck you might establish a special relationship with another hero so your two characters could use powers that are normally restricted to a downed hero, could then target one who is just disabled.

May your story never be ruined by a tpk.

 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
In Fact Flashback is kind of how you see it in the movies.

A downed character in movies is an inspiration to his comrades the camera pans to one ally who first notices insert flashback and ally rushes slow mo in a charge to defend the fallen, next round another ally gets a big flurry of anger inspired multi-attacks ... and so on.

Basically the downed PC becomes a source of party buffs to offset his own presence (Game wise these can be controlled/selected by the player so as to keep him involved in the action.)
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
You see what happens when one hero goes down? they get flash backs of relationships and moments with that hero they become emotionallly inspired etc. They are enraged / or driven..
This effect doesn't necessarily happen all at once after all everybody gets there turn for a spot light... and it is often a reflection of the hero how he affects his allies.
I don't recall if it was a playtest thing or a house rule of if it's in the final game, but I do remember something like this from 13th Age (y'all have gotta be tired of me mentioning that, yeah, 13A totally did that cool idea already). When your character's out of the fight, you can still do something.

Solution in Simplest Form : The player can when there character is down / disabled operate in a fashion like a defacto LazyLord creating various support effects and maintaining the action economy of the fight. It keeps the player involved in the tactics of the fight.
Even simpler would be, your dropped character can still use the help action on any ally still fighting. Not a lot to it, but it's simple.

One element of implementation might involve giving characters powers which require they be disabled or down to varying degrees. It could even open other possibilities for fun. Heck you might establish a special relationship with another hero so your two characters could use powers that are normally restricted to a downed hero, could then target one who is just disabled.
I could see a lot of leader tricks working that way. The Warlord giving advice/inspiration in advance that the ally recalls later. The Artificer doing the Q thing to his ally's Jame's Bond. The Cleric giving a blessing, the Bard recounting a tale that foreshadows a solution to a future problem, etc.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I
I could see a lot of leader tricks working that way. The Warlord giving advice/inspiration in advance that the ally recalls later. The Artificer doing the Q thing to his ally's Jame's Bond. The Cleric giving a blessing, the Bard recounting a tale that foreshadows a solution to a future problem, etc.

You mean creating trigger conditions?
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Even simpler would be, your dropped character can still use the help action on any ally still fighting. Not a lot to it, but it's simple.

We have been discussing allowing more elaborate help in a thread about out of combat team roles. That combined with this idea might be very interesting.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
You mean creating trigger conditions?
That'd certainly be one way & I'm sure I'd have fun with it. But I was thinking more RP set-up with the relevance filled in later, or even the whole thing imagined retroactively, in a flash-back.

The downside I see to trying to more "process-sim" the idea is that you end up with a lot of triggers establish that may never actually be triggered. Fine for a simulation, prep for many eventualities so you'll be ready for the one that actually happens. OK for a game, they're options, they can be balanced, etc. Bad for a Story: don't foreshadow something that's not going to happen.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I don't recall if it was a playtest thing or a house rule of if it's in the final game, but I do remember something like this from 13th Age (y'all have gotta be tired of me mentioning that, yeah, 13A totally did that cool idea already). When your character's out of the fight, you can still do something.

I would like to see it!
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I would like to see it!

Wish I could remember it. It may have been as simple as coming up, on your turn, with some past interaction between you and one of the PCs still up, and using it as a basis for whatever 13A uses as a help action, or maybe letting them Rally, I really can't remember. :(
 

You mean creating trigger conditions?

Nah, its just pure color. You simply retcon. "Remember last night when I told you to keep your guard up?" Except its the character remembering for himself, since his buddy is now down...

Of course, 4e does already kind of have this built in more than other editions. In the 'good old days' only the wizard could really 'pull out the stops' (and maybe not always either, if things got bad he was probably swarmed or something). In 4e everyone has HS to burn, APs, daily powers, etc. One guy goes down, the rest 'get serious'. Obviously if EVERYONE was already cranked to the max, then that won't help, but...

Still, the idea that you don't JUST play your character, but that you have a more story-centered function in the game as a player is a good one. I could see a play style where 'playing the character' is only a small part, maybe you don't even need to play one specific character, though I think D&D isn't really going there.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top