merwins
Explorer
I'm finding it difficult to parse Dark Delirium, and I fully acknowledge that I'm likely reading too much into it. Blame it on general English geekiness and micro-analysis.
The following Dark Delirium description was grabbed from the 5E Fandom wikia, but I have inserted line breaks as they appear in my PHB:
Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage.
Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion.
You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.
If I read this linearly, I have to make a number of assumptions, but the most straightforward results in the following:
But then I slowed down and started over.
Hurl Through Hell and Create Thrall are comparable abilities attained at Warlock 14. They have NO SAVING THROW (but HtH does have the conditional "not a fiend").
So why is Dark Delirium different? Just because it takes a minute? Maybe it's not supposed to be different.
If I parse the description a different way, I can interpret it so:
Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm.
This is going to happen. No save. Very similar to the first sentence of the other two patrons.
As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell).
Now we're getting into the detail of the illusion -- its mechanical impact. And we're introducing a charm or frighten status usually doesn't happen with illusions -- it's the result of a SEPARATE enchantment.
This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage.
Here's where I suffered a major disconnect. I read "this effect" as referring to the charm/frighten impact, which is the enchantment effect, NOT the illusion effect.
Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.
NOW we're back to the illusion, and the impact thereof.
So the net result is actually:
Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm.
As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion.
It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice).
All these effects end after 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell) or if the creature takes any damage.
You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.
Why bother? Only because it irked me that this was the only Patron that required a save for its 14th-level effect. This gives the Warlock the ability to shunt a creature out of combat (until it takes damage) EVEN IF it makes it's save vs charm/fear. Still not as persistent as Create Thrall, and not as inherently damaging as Hurl through Hell. But it feels more on par.
Thoughts?
The following Dark Delirium description was grabbed from the 5E Fandom wikia, but I have inserted line breaks as they appear in my PHB:
Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm. As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell). This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage.
Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion.
You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.
If I read this linearly, I have to make a number of assumptions, but the most straightforward results in the following:
- Warlock picks a legal target.
- Target rolls a saving throw. If Target fails, they're "lost" and either charmed or frightened. If Target saves, nothing happens.
- The lost and charmed or frightened statuses last for 1 minute or until concentration is broken or the target takes any damage.
But then I slowed down and started over.
Hurl Through Hell and Create Thrall are comparable abilities attained at Warlock 14. They have NO SAVING THROW (but HtH does have the conditional "not a fiend").
So why is Dark Delirium different? Just because it takes a minute? Maybe it's not supposed to be different.
If I parse the description a different way, I can interpret it so:
Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm.
This is going to happen. No save. Very similar to the first sentence of the other two patrons.
As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice) for 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell).
Now we're getting into the detail of the illusion -- its mechanical impact. And we're introducing a charm or frighten status usually doesn't happen with illusions -- it's the result of a SEPARATE enchantment.
This effect ends early if the creature takes any damage.
Here's where I suffered a major disconnect. I read "this effect" as referring to the charm/frighten impact, which is the enchantment effect, NOT the illusion effect.
Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion. You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.
NOW we're back to the illusion, and the impact thereof.
So the net result is actually:
Starting at 14th level, you can plunge a creature into an illusory realm.
As an action, choose a creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. Until this illusion ends, the creature thinks it is lost in a misty realm, the appearance of which you choose. The creature can see and hear only itself, you, and the illusion.
It must make a Wisdom saving throw against your warlock spell save DC. On a failed save, it is charmed or frightened by you (your choice).
All these effects end after 1 minute or until your concentration is broken (as if you are concentrating on a spell) or if the creature takes any damage.
You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.
Why bother? Only because it irked me that this was the only Patron that required a save for its 14th-level effect. This gives the Warlock the ability to shunt a creature out of combat (until it takes damage) EVEN IF it makes it's save vs charm/fear. Still not as persistent as Create Thrall, and not as inherently damaging as Hurl through Hell. But it feels more on par.
Thoughts?
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