D&D 5E scaling non-combat cantrips by character/class level

I

intently

Explorer

• Mar 21, 2017

• #1

Combat cantrip damage scales with character level, but has anyone played around with non-combat cantrip scaling? Just some ideas, from off the top of my head:

• Mage hand: can lift 5 lbs per character level, min 10
• Guidance: add 1d4, +1 at level 6, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 16
• Resistance: affects +1 targets at level 6, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 16
• Prestidigitation/Druidcraft/Thaumaturgy: level 6, duration increases to 10 minutes; level 11, 5 simultaneous effects; level 16, duration 1 hour, 10 simultaneous effects

Of course, cantrips are already extremely powerful, so maybe this is a bad idea.

 

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Hawk Diesel

Adventurer

• Mar 21, 2017

• #2

I must admit I kind of like where this is going. For mage hand I might change it to add at the end of the description:

This spell’s maximum weight capacity increases by 10 lbs when you reach 5th level (20 lbs), 11th level (30 lbs), and 17th level (40 lbs). You still cannot attack or activate magic items.

With guidance, it would be:

This spell’s bonus granted increases by +1 when you reach 5th level (1d4+1), 11th level (1d4+2), and 17th level (1d4+3).

For Resistance, I would recommend this wording:

This spell can effect one additional target when you reach level 5 (2 targets), 11th level (3 targets), and 17th level (4 targets). All targets must be within 30ft of the initial target touched.

 

I

intently

Explorer

• Mar 21, 2017

• #3

Sure, those are good wordings. Most cantrips can be modified in a similar manner.

Is this a "good" idea? Or does it just make cantrips too good?

 

Hawk Diesel

Adventurer

• Mar 21, 2017

• #4

intently said:

Sure, those are good wordings. Most cantrips can be modified in a similar manner.

Is this a "good" idea? Or does it just make cantrips too good?

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I don't think it makes them "too good." But the reason that damage dealing cantrips scale is to keep spellcasters competitive with their ability to deal damage compared to more martially based characters. But, assuming you buy into that philosophy, I see no reason that non-damage dealing cantrips couldn't scale. From my perspective and play style, higher level characters should expect to have neat abilities like this. Why should your firebolt get stronger, but not your minor illusion? Now, this gets tricky when the cantrip becomes more powerful than the spell (at level 17 Firebolt deals more damage than chromatic orb), but that also makes a kind of sense. If some cantrips scale, why not others? Is there a specific reason, be it mechanical, RP-based, or whatever, that one group gets more powerful with practice while another group remains stagnant?

 

L

lowkey13

Guest

• Mar 21, 2017

• #5

*Deleted by user*

 

G

Gadget

Adventurer

• Mar 21, 2017

• #6

Hawk Diesel said:

Why should your firebolt get stronger, but not your minor illusion? ... If some cantrips scale, why not others? Is there a specific reason, be it mechanical, RP-based, or whatever, that one group gets more powerful with practice while another group remains stagnant?

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The attack cantrips scale because Hit Points scale. That simple. To make these catrips at all useful at higher levels, they would have to scale to some degree or be left behind. The utility cantrips can still be useful at higher level as they are not usually directly interacting with Hit Points.

That being said, cantrips in this addition are pretty powerful. If one wanted to make all catrips scale such that cantrip magic becomes more relevant at higher levels, you could certainly do it. I'm just not sure how would go about doing it without making first level spell slots largely unnecessary. How does friends scale in such a way as to not overshadow Charm Person? At what point does Blade Ward become a suitable (concentration & expensive material component free) Stoneskin replacement? At what point does True Strike become usable? How does Minor Illusion scale without making Silent Image, Major Image obsolete? These are questions that would have to be considered in any scaling cantrip expansion.

 

I

intently

Explorer

• Mar 23, 2017

• #7

Yep, all good points! Probably not worth messing with

 

CM

Adventurer

• Mar 23, 2017

• #8

I'd probably let mage hand and light scale slightly, and let prestidigitation and similar do slightly more, but anything that interacts with defenses or ability checks should not as they are just as useful at any level already.

 

T

The Crimson Binome

Hero

• Mar 23, 2017

• #9

I would recommend against scaling your cantrips. Damaging cantrips only scale with level because hit points scale with level. Utility spells already remain equally-useful regardless of level, and +1d4 remains useful at any level due to bounded accuracy.