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Li Shenron

Legend
The PHB+1 rule also gives the rules designers more freedom since they don't have to consider every possible combo when designing character features. As long as nothing is overpowered when combined with PHB features it's no problem. Without this kind of rule then every new character option added will lock off part of the design space, limiting future expanions to features that won't be OP when combined with anything else in the game so far.

So the PHB+1 rule will probably be a good guideline for home games as well in the future, once there are more character options for 5E.

That's true, but does this mean the PHB+1 rule is going to affect their decisions on what to put into the expansion book? Like "let's put very little because otherwise everyone will choose this books as their '+1' choice".

Because personally I will buy the expansion book only if I think it's worth, and for me the SCAG was way too "slim" in content to be worth. The last thing I want is WotC cutting down all the fantastic stuff from UA to a miserable small bunch of additions, only to preserve the PHB+1 rule used in AL. That would be terrible :/
 

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Surely the simple answer is for them to reprint the player rules currently found outside the PHB in this new book?

I quite like that approach. It consolidates the rules instead of spreading them across multiple sources. It's also more of the 1st edition approach where UA collected Dragon articles as well as new stuff and Fiend Folio and MMII had monsters from modules as well as new ones.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
That's true, but does this mean the PHB+1 rule is going to affect their decisions on what to put into the expansion book? Like "let's put very little because otherwise everyone will choose this books as their '+1' choice".

Because personally I will buy the expansion book only if I think it's worth, and for me the SCAG was way too "slim" in content to be worth. The last thing I want is WotC cutting down all the fantastic stuff from UA to a miserable small bunch of additions, only to preserve the PHB+1 rule used in AL. That would be terrible :/
If they continue with the "slim pickings" strategy, rest assured it is because they think they can get away with selling little for much.

Not some AL-specific rule. Lots of D&D gamers have no interaction with the AL and doesn't even know the first thing about it.

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Okay, I'll try a more blunt approach:

The +1 rule works if the choices are roughly similar in scope.

If one of the +1 sources contain much more crunch to a much deeper level, other sources have their opportunity cost significantly increased.
Yes, this means the cost is uneven, but doesn't mean the rule doesn't need to apply.

Yes, players will be far more likely to pick options from the forthcoming book (maybe - we don't know how much content will actually make the cut), but that doesn't mean the other sources have nothing of value. It just means you need to decide what matters most to your character concept. If you want to play a swashbuckling rogue it doesn't matter how many options or other books there are.

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm not arguing to remove the +1 rule.

I'm trying to explain to you why the poster expressed concern. Just repeating the rule and it's original justification is beside this point.

The thing is, the rule probably didn't need to exist before now. With three books of very different options, mixing a race from Volo's Guide to Monsters, a subclass from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and spells from Elemental Evil Player Companion likely would not break the game.
The rule wasn't really needed prior to the release of the fall book.
I don't see any reason why the rule would be lifted for the fall book.

I understand that the OP is likely concerned about being unable to use the new options with an existing character that already uses another source.
I just don't care.
First, it's a theoretical problem. We don't know the subclasses coming or if any will fit the concept of existing characters.
The book is likely out in November. That's six months to get play with the current character. Even if starting a new character, that gets them to a reasonably high level. Or a couple characters to level 3 and ready to take a subclass. Or, the OP could DM more during that time so they could build a higher level character using DM credit when the book comes out.
Also, when SCAG was released, there was a limited window where you could rebuild you characters. That option will likely be employed again, allowing someone to swap out a subclass for a new one.
If none of those options seem appealing… there'll be future characters.

So far we've been given much breadth but almost no depth.

That is, more ways to create *a* character, but very few ways to customize *existing* characters.

As soon as "depth-options" finally become available, your assertion no longer holds true.
If I really want to play a goliath barbarian, then it doesn't matter what the new book has, because the concept is fulfilled by VGtM and the PHB. There might be cool barbarian subclasses that you want to play, and you have to choose what matters more to the character concept: their race or their subclass. But I think race will matters a lot as well.

I doubt we'll ever see "depth options". Because that's not how 5e was designed. It was explicitly designed not to bother with that. It was a design goal to focus on play at the table rather than "play" between games while levelling up your character or designing new characters.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Not only do I not see the PHB+1 rule changing, I also don't see a rebuild coming -- the EEPC rebuild option for higher level characters was not repeated for SCAG or Volo's, so I doubt it would be repeated with whatever book is coming out in the fall, assuming it's not a companion book for the new hardcover adventure.

With that said, it's been pointed out to me that the newest ALPG does allow a character who hasn't yet taken any rules options from a source outside the PH to choose any allowable rules source to become its +1 when it levels up -- so if you really want to use something from a new book, make sure you've got some characters that are 'vanilla PH' come GenCon.

--
Pauper
 


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