Does anybody else think that Magic has too many skill divisions?

Konrad Zielinski · May 18, 2017

OLD, as written has 15., and when I compare this to other games with a verb noun magical system that is a lot, particularly considering that most characters only gain 1 rank in one magical skill per grade. So extreme specialisation is going to be required.

Also it strikes me that a lot of the skills are very similar. I mean Enchant and Compel might as well be one skill. Ditto for displacement and movement. Then there are also ones that are mirror opposites, and honestly I like the the moral ambiguity of combining them, so that being good at one makes you just as capable of the other and its up to the character to determine what path they will follow so my merges would be:

Abjure / Hex
Compel / Enchant
Create / Evoke
Divine / Illusion
Displace / Move
Heal / Transform
Infuse / Inflict
Summon

Which cuts the number of skills down to eight, and toughly doubles the versatility of the average magic user.

Morrus · May 18, 2017

It's designed towards specialisation, for sure. I've always liked the idea of wizards who were known for a particular type of magic.

The system is eminently tweakable though. That sort of tweak would be easy to implement -- basically, it's another optional magi style (like the existing fatigue, high fantasy, ritual magic etc.). You could call it Generalist Magic, perhaps.

Konrad Zielinski · May 19, 2017

Actyually now that I think about it. I'd probalby make Evoke remain its own thing for combat reasons, and lump Summon in with Create, As this also raise interesting implications, do magic users actually know the difference? If you create a dead body to distract a monster, are you relaly creating it, or did you just rob a grave somewhere? And on the flip side did summoned creatures exist before you summoned them, and what happens to them at the end of the spelll, do the go back where they came from or cease to exist?

easl · May 19, 2017

The various magic careers typically have exploits that give bonus skills (and secrets). Thus it is relatively easy to build a starting character that are a mile wide and an inch deep. A typical PC will have 13 skill points, but magic characters can easily start with 2-4 more.

What I find more difficult in the system is building a non-one-dimensional character who is deep in casting some spells. Starting PCs will have at best a 6 skill in any magic skill (and that causes the PC to be fairly one dimensional). Thus "sword and sorcery" type spell-slingers can't really be built. Dropping that 5d6 fireball will take experience.

But for smart spellcasters who can take good advantage of minor effects (like your example of summoning a dead body to distract monsters), I disagree with the idea that the skill system is too broad. Those sorts of PCs are IMO easy to design.

Konrad Zielinski · May 19, 2017

How do you get a 6 in a magic skill? There are no races that let you take a magic skill, and you only get 5 careers. And the Mage's Arcane Knowledge Base exploiit explicitly says you can't use it to improve an existing skill. So even if you use it to get a skill, and then imporvoe it as part of the same career grade, that still only gets you to 5, and yes it does requrie you to take four magical careers.

TreChriron · May 19, 2017

Konrad Zielinski said:
How do you get a 6 in a magic skill? ...

Let's see...

Wizards Apprentice: magic skill a (MSA) (1 rank).
Mage: Take Arcane Knowledge Base; MSB (1), MSC (1), MSD (1), MSE (1) - up MSA (2).
Mage: MSA (3)
Mage: MSA (4)
Mage: MSA (5)

You can't! :-D I looked through all the exploits and I don't see one that can hook you up with that 6th skill rank.

Of course, you would be better off taking Lore Master at least once so you can pick up the 4 secrets, and at that rate you would likely pick a couple skills to be rank 3 versus one at 5...

Konrad Zielinski · May 19, 2017

Well. now I know what the next three careers are going to be for my solo play character. And she is really going on a grand tour of the magic using careers here. With a smattering of fighitng careers thrown in.

easl · May 20, 2017

Hmmm, you're right. I had thought the elves started with magic skills but now looking at the book I see they don't. Five is the max for a starting PC.

But I think my point still stands - achieving breadth is not the problem if you want to play a powerful mage, achieving depth is.

Khaalis · May 29, 2017

As an aside, has anyone looked at expanding the TYPE of magic systems one could apply to WOIN?

For instance adapting True20's True Sorcery or RuneQuest's Animism?

Would these be viable 3rd Party OGL additions?

Morrus · May 29, 2017

I've thought about it but don't have the time myself right now. If you think about it, magic, psionics, and chi, are three types of plug in magic systems.

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