D&D 5E Redbrand Cultists! Wave Echo Forge of Fury! Sunless Old Owll Well!

Yenrak

Explorer
I've been doing a lot of thinking about how to combine LMoP with other published adventures. Or at least set the stage for other adventures by making changes to LMoP.
Here's what I have in mind so far.

  1. The Redbramds aren't just a gang--they're a cult. I haven't worked out whether they are Dragon cultists or Elemental Cultists. I'm leaning heavily toward Elemental because I ran Temple of Elemental Evil years ago and like the idea of alluding back to that adventure. Maybe I'll even change The Black Spider's real name to Lareth the Beautiful.
  2. Wave Echo Cavern is Forge of Fury. I think Wave Echo Cavern is pretty disappointing and small given all the build up toward finding it. So I'm going to substitute in Khundrukar. It has all the features necessary to be Wave Echo plus so much more. Nezznar will likely be in the desecrated shrine down on The Foundry level. There are a bunch of e,pty rooms there where I can place other encounters from Wave Echo (Mormensk the Wrath, the fame skull, Nezzenar's bugbears, the surviving Rockseeker brother).
  3. Sunless Citadel is at Old Owl Well
What do you think?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Because the published adventures don't have enough cultists, already.

Edit: I didn't mean to criticize your idea, which I think is pretty cool. I was just making a jab at the published APs.
 
Last edited:



GlassJaw

Hero
I think it's a cool idea. If you run them as-is, you are introducing a lot of xp into the level 1-5 range. My players just got to Cragmaw Castle and are level 4 (although they killed the dragon).
I probably wouldn't do more with the Redbrands though. They work nicely as a way for the players to establish themselves in town and do a good deed.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World
 

hastur_nz

First Post
Yeah, I think it's a good expansion, but to make it work you probably want to focus not just on what to Add, but also what to Take Away, given all those bits are for levels 1-4 as written.

Personally, I spent a fair bit of spare time thinking about how to alter LMoP, so it blends nicely into Storm King's Thunder (from level 5) i.e. go from Phandelver to Triboar and so on. For example, add the Zentarim in some kind of shaky / dodgy alliance with the Redbrands. Black Spider was sent to Phandelver by the Fire Giants of Ironslag, to find and secure the Forge of Spells. Maybe the Fire Giants actually get hold of the Forge of Spells, "unplug it", and cart it off to Ironslag (the "Forge" could actually be an engine of the Vonindod, or suchlike; perhaps the PC's learn of an attack looming in Triboar, but only after that can they learn that the Forge was taken to Ironslag). I don't think I'll actually use those ideas, but I like them.
 

It's like the OP is reading my campaign notes! In my current game, I've mashed together Phandalin and Khundrukar. I'm not a giant fan of LMoP, in part because I find the "lost mine" to be somewhat underwhelming. But I really like the town map of Phandalin. Similarly, I'm taking Khundrukar and customizing it.

On a related note, I've thought of transplanting Princes of the Apocalypse to Waterdeep, making each elemental temple a different section of Undermountain, and having each elemental node be a creation of Halaster's.

Anyway, back to the OP...I would suggest picking a theme and sticking to it. So if you want your campaign villains to be dragon cultists, then Sunless Citadel (which has a draconic theme throughout) is a great fit. However, if you want your villains to be elemental cultists, then perhaps Old Owl Well has a watery, aquatic elemental theme. Or maybe Tressendar Manor becomes the moathouse...?
 

On a related note, I've thought of transplanting Princes of the Apocalypse to Waterdeep, making each elemental temple a different section of Undermountain, and having each elemental node be a creation of Halaster's.

This is my plan also. I'm going to start a campaign set in Waterdeep sometime soon, and my intention is simply to airdrop parts of all the APs into the world around and under it. So they'll hear about the Amber Temple in the local mountains. A Water Cult temple will be in the sewers, and I might change it to be an Umberlee temple for the interesting way that'll interact with the new Temple of Umberlee in the harbour. Forge of Fury has parts that should fit into Undermountain just fine.

I like your idea of directly porting the entire module into Undermountain. The connections between the dungeons can always be broken up, especially if you institute some kind of Skill Challenge whenever they try to travel through Undermountain. You'd presumably have to lose the surface dungeons though, since they don't fit the urban environment so well?
 

This is my plan also. I'm going to start a campaign set in Waterdeep sometime soon, and my intention is simply to airdrop parts of all the APs into the world around and under it. So they'll hear about the Amber Temple in the local mountains. A Water Cult temple will be in the sewers, and I might change it to be an Umberlee temple for the interesting way that'll interact with the new Temple of Umberlee in the harbour. Forge of Fury has parts that should fit into Undermountain just fine.

I like your idea of directly porting the entire module into Undermountain. The connections between the dungeons can always be broken up, especially if you institute some kind of Skill Challenge whenever they try to travel through Undermountain. You'd presumably have to lose the surface dungeons though, since they don't fit the urban environment so well?

I like the idea of placing the Water Cult temple in the sewers. It's totally obvious yet I hadn't thought of it.

Actually, I think most of the surface dungeons do fit into the urban environment. Feathergale Spire can be plunked down at the base of Mount Waterdeep or in any upscale quarter. Rivergard Keep can be placed in the harbor. The monastery could be...a monastery--Waterdeep abounds with religious institutions. (Although I would probably reskin it as the estate of a reclusive noble. There are no shortage of reclusive nobles in Waterdeep.) As for the fire cult...it's probably my least favorite surface dungeon, so I would trash it and start from scratch. A foundry or the like is an obvious starting point.

Waterdeep is a relatively orderly city, yet there's a deep strain of mayhem lurking just below the surface. Placing PotA in Waterdeep doesn't contradict the nature of the city but rather highlights it.
 

You've got some really interesting thoughts! Here's some of mine; as I'm likely to recycle the (really nicely done) PotA dungeons anyway, it helps to hash out my likely options.

Actually, I think most of the surface dungeons do fit into the urban environment. Feathergale Spire can be plunked down at the base of Mount Waterdeep or in any upscale quarter.

I think that Feathergale makes the least sense in Waterdeep, simply because it clashes too much with the Griffon Cavalry on a conceptual basis. I'd want to keep it out of the city just to avoid player confusion! That said, there is a perfect place for it: the House of Stone. Just change up some of the descriptions and it should work, and it's really not far from the city. Either way, I'd keep the Spire out of the city, so that it's 'hunting lodge for bored nobles' theme can work, and to avoid awkward issues like "Why don't the Griffon Cavalry watch these guys?"

Rivergard Keep can be placed in the harbor.

Probably makes more sense for a pirate hold to be out of the city, like Roaringshore is to the south. I actually found Rivergard Keep quite boring in play though, so it's really no big loss to just quietly ignore it. Dropping it, and putting the Temple of the Crushing Wave (level 7) into the sewers would probably be fine.

The monastery could be...a monastery--Waterdeep abounds with religious institutions. (Although I would probably reskin it as the estate of a reclusive noble. There are no shortage of reclusive nobles in Waterdeep.)

I do like the idea of the monastery being located in the Sea Ward, with an impeccably respectable exterior and a monastic butler who is the height of well-mannered obstruction. Nothing about the monastery's interior excludes it from being placed in a city, if I recall correctly; and the dungeon downstairs can easily be said to connect to Undermountain, making it a valuable chain in the player's route down.

As for the fire cult...it's probably my least favorite surface dungeon, so I would trash it and start from scratch. A foundry or the like is an obvious starting point.

I actually found this one quite fun, myself; it's a short and fairly memorable episode. The players still, to this day, regard Druids as flighty thanks to the rather gullible ones they met there. But since it's short, replacing it isn't a big deal, and it certainly doesn't match Waterdeep that well, unless you moved it to, say, Amphail and turn it into a parody of that recent failed festival thing that was on the news. A more odd-ball option is the Rat Hills to the south of the city; the metaplot introduced in the 2e City of Splendours included half of it burning down suddenly, which you could easily retrofit into the activities of the cult. Perhaps they started a massive conflagration and then build a shrine amongst the perpetual flames?

Once you get down to the second level - the Dwarven City stuff - I think it's very easy to handle. Just place it all into Undermountain, which incorporates Dwarven ruins anyway, and change the descriptions on the fly to suit them being of a different character from Besilmer.

Waterdeep is a relatively orderly city, yet there's a deep strain of mayhem lurking just below the surface. Placing PotA in Waterdeep doesn't contradict the nature of the city but rather highlights it.

I certainly don't disagree! I think that your main concern in a PotA Waterdeep campaign would be to try and integrate the bad guys with the Waterdeep rogue's gallery a little; having people like Maaril the Dragonmage seen leaving the Monastery might go a long way into making it feel like a coherent whole. With the city already having a harbour (and a recently temple to Umberlee) you can easily bring in a water theme, while setting the story in winter means that howling gales and driving rain can bring the theme of air into play. Stone comes from Undermountain. The only really tough one is fire, and maybe the Rat Hills thing I mentioned above can help there. With the city working well in an elemental theme, and Undermountain covering all kinds of sins of dungeon placement, it should actually be relatively straightforward to do.

Other fun parts of the modules should be equally usable. I used the Death House from Curse of Strahd to transport a group from the Trade Ward to Barovia already - no reason I couldn't use it again but without the Barovia! The Doomvault from Tales can be chopped up into loads of tiny Undermountain pieces, great for "you stumble upon a doorway that leads into a new section...". Parts of Out of the Abyss can be used if the players in your game go to Skullport and fancy exploring further - just move stuff arbitrarily closer and don't show the players the Underdark map. Rise of Tiamat has some really cool locations - the Tomb of Diderius, Xonthal's Tower - which are not so far from Waterdeep that you couldn't just use them as free-standing adventures in their own right. Transporting them to the city is a little harder, but Xonthal's Tower is arguably a perfect stand-in for the inside of Ahghairon's Tower, and Diderius' Tomb could maybe, with enough work, be put into the City of the Dead...
 

Remove ads

Top