D&D 5E Witch Bolt: Redux

Yunru · Jun 27, 2017

Witch Bolt
1st-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d6 lightning damage to the target automatically. The target's speed is halved for the duration of the spell. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage it deals increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.

Gadget · Jun 28, 2017

Interesting, I like that you changed the damage to 2d6 and therefore allowed both the initial and ongoing damage to scale. The halving the target's speed is a nice little initial debuf, I had thought of having the target slowed to make the fiction consistent, but feel that would be to overpowered. I had also thought of have the target grappled, where the target must make a STR or DEX check against your spell save to escape and end the spell. I have also seen having the target loose reactions as well. The thing to be careful of with these debufs is that they do an end around of Legendary Resistances. It may not be much of a debuf, but it could be useful against such a creature. I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

I'm still not sure I'd take it, even with the adjusted damage scaling and debuff. I had also thought of changing the damage similar to this, but having the caster make a ranged spell attack every round, but at any target in range, with advantage on the roll if you hit the target last round. This way you can at least switch targets if your target dies, or circumstances change such that there is a higher priority target. You can even use it on a hoard of mooks, assuming you didn't have a AOE handy you were willing to use. And if you miss on a round, it isn't the end of the spell, you just won't have advantage on the next attack.

snickersnax · Jun 28, 2017

I like lightning effects to have stun. simulating real life effect of electricity on the body...

"Even when the current is stopped, the victim may not regain voluntary control over their muscles for a while, as the neurotransmitter chemistry has been thrown into disarray. This principle has been applied in “stun gun” devices such as Tasers, which on the principle of momentarily shocking a victim with a high-voltage pulse delivered between two electrodes. A well-placed shock has the effect of temporarily (a few minutes) immobilizing the victim." from physiologic effects of electricity https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-3/physiological-effects-electricity/

The problem is 1st level spell

jaelis · Jun 28, 2017

How about no reactions, instead of slow?

Tersival · Jun 28, 2017

snickersnax said:
I like lightning effects to have stun. simulating real life effect of electricity on the body...

"Even when the current is stopped, the victim may not regain voluntary control over their muscles for a while, as the neurotransmitter chemistry has been thrown into disarray. This principle has been applied in “stun gun” devices such as Tasers, which on the principle of momentarily shocking a victim with a high-voltage pulse delivered between two electrodes. A well-placed shock has the effect of temporarily (a few minutes) immobilizing the victim." from physiologic effects of electricity https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-3/physiological-effects-electricity/

The problem is 1st level spell

I was surprised to read this. I don't know anyone who's been tasered but I know police who've been trained in taser and they're told that recovery can often be near instantaneous, especially when the subject is violent.

When properly deployed tasers deliver electricity through the subjects muscles between the taser's probes causing "electro-muscular disruption (EMD)" as the effected muscles painfully spasm, overriding conscious commands BUT as soon as the current stops. Muscular function returns, and a pissed off subject can immediately resume fighting.

Check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avAH49NY_iY to see a cop pushing through being tasered to keep fighting (even though the other cops tasered fell over).

From http://copquotes.blogspot.com.au/2010/10/do-people-go-unconscious-when-hit-with.html, "Once the cycle completes the sensation immediately stops. The only sensation that I had after being hit with the Taser is similar to a weight lifting work out. All of the large muscle groups feel pumped up ... In my experience of deploying a Taser against someone, most do not want a second round. Those who choose to continue in the aggressive behavior and get a second dose rarely need a third."

Its the pain that stops most people.

That doesn't sound like the "Stunned" D&D condition to me, although the youtube clip does look movement was at least halved!

Yunru · Jun 28, 2017

jaelis said:
How about no reactions, instead of slow?

The pseudo-slow is, in part, to help make up for the movement-based end condition.
There's also the fact that slow fits better than no reactions for being electrocuted for a prolonged period of time.

Ideally it'd be a high level spell so we could do paralyzed until the spell ends, only able to make saving throws or something, but at that point we've basically a completely different spell.

jaelis · Jun 28, 2017

Yunru said:
The pseudo-slow is, in part, to help make up for the movement-based end condition.
There's also the fact that slow fits better than no reactions for being electrocuted for a prolonged period of time.

Ideally it'd be a high level spell so we could do paralyzed until the spell ends, only able to make saving throws or something, but at that point we've basically a completely different spell.

Yeah but in dnd the slow effect is associated with cold damage. Denial of reactions is sort of like stunning, and also it connects to shocking grasp. Also makes the spell legit useful if you're fighting a creature with a powerful reaction ability.

For the ending condition problem, I'd rather make it "The spell also ends if, at the end of your turn, the target is outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you." That makes the whole thing more active, the target can try to get away but you can chase it down.

snickersnax · Jun 28, 2017

Tersival said:
Check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avAH49NY_iY to see a cop pushing through being tasered to keep fighting (even though the other cops tasered fell over).

Clearly he made his saving throw...twice

And this is for like 1 point of electrical damage. Imagine if there was enough shock to kill your average person. The electrical tetanus should be worth one round of stun or as others have suggested lost of reactions. Falling prone because of stun makes sense to me as well.

Mephista · Jun 28, 2017

Fighting off a taser is a function of either genetics, or sometimes drugs. Some people just don't have the body that's affected by a taser as others. Thick skin, perhaps, so the barbs don't sink in. Or there's just not enough coverage to make the muscles spasm. Its not a question of willpower.

Irregardless, none of that matters. We're playing a game here, not discussing the benefits of non-lethal weapons in a modern game context. What we need is to be holding true to the source material and what makes sense with in-game logic, not to what happens in reality.

So, in the first place, I'm going to flat out say the speed reduction doesn't work that well. First of all, assuming a normal 30'speed, a mage is going to need to be within 10' or so of the target, or they can still escape. Why is a sorcerer/wizard/warlock that close to melee and casting a spell? Hitting a mage to stop an ongoing spell is fairly common knowledge, I imagine, and while the speed reduction doesn't stop the enemy from running away, it certainly doesn't stop them from running up and smacking you in the face. Concentration sucks that way. You'll need a Stunned or Paralyzed Condition if you want control to prevent that kind of shinanigans.