D&D 5E I played a game of Classic D&D.

iserith · Jul 20, 2017

KarinsDad said:
Yeah, this is like saying that it is a decision to not have your PC jump off a 1000 foot cliff. Yeah, it is technically a decision, but it is not practically a decision.

Depends on whether you have feather fall memorized.

discosoc · Jul 20, 2017

Irda Ranger said:
Personally I think the real joy of Basic D&D (and OD&D) is that you don't waste any time trying to figure out who your character is before playing the game. You just roll stats, pick a race/class, buy some weapons maybe, and roll HP. Done. Then you're thrown into the game and everything else is figured out via play. This is great for two reasons-

1) The game around the table is time better spent than cranking through character options by yourself. Making a character in modern editions (especially 3E) is too much like homework. The game is the thing. Get to it.

2) We can only really define our identity in a social context anyway. Trying to figure out who your character "is" when it's just you and a blank character sheet is unnatural compared to responding to in-game situations organically and discovering who they are that way.

I tend to equate old-school D&D as the precursor to modern board games more than modern RPGs.

KarinsDad · Jul 20, 2017

discosoc said:
I tend to equate old-school D&D as the precursor to modern board games more than modern RPGs.

What would you equate old-school Rolemaster to? It took hours to create a PC who could then die even faster than one could in D&D?

Tony Vargas · Jul 20, 2017

KarinsDad said:
In 1E, 0 hit points were dead. End of story, roll up a new PC.

Or -3, or -10 depending on how the DM read the DMG and the dice fell.
Max hps at first was a common variant, and there were plenty of others... Some Of us even used -Con instead of -10, so yeah, 1e was lethal, but it was recognized as an issue, even then...

5e's instant death rule is comparable at first level, but quickly becomes very safe...

FWIW

KarinsDad said:
What would you equate old-school Rolemaster to?

That's a tough one... snorting Drano? ..working for the DMV? ...looking for a job after graduating from art school?

Nope, sorry, can't come up with an analogy that really captures it.

mflayermonk · Jul 20, 2017

KarinsDad said:
What would you equate old-school Rolemaster to? It took hours to create a PC who could then die even faster than one could in D&D?

Old-school Rolemaster.

Where the murder hobo was an actual NPC hobo.

discosoc · Jul 20, 2017

KarinsDad said:
What would you equate old-school Rolemaster to? It took hours to create a PC who could then die even faster than one could in D&D?

Bad game design.

DaveDash · Jul 21, 2017

The_Gunslinger658 said:
If the DM is playing honestly in 5E, it is just about impossible to kill characters off due to everybody having some kind of healing ability, rage (damage against you is reduced), 2nd wind and so on. Bards can heal, Rogues can attack then disengage, Warlocks, well dont get me started on that class lol.

I remember dying alot when I played 1E AD&D, the only healing you had either came from a cleric or a potion. We older DM's are now see'ing the legacy of the World of Warcraft mentality in paper and pen RPG's designs. In D&D 3.5, you could still die sometimes but 4E took D&D to an MMO level of playing and 5E I think continues this trend but in a lot less transparent way.

Scott

I've killed two PC's running Princes of the Apocalypse with dice rolls all in the open, without trying (in other words, I am not a DM vs Player type of DM). They were also both around level 6-7 at the time. One of them got resurrected - the other they couldn't get his body back and died outright.

Definitely not like the old 'Rogue like' days of 1E of course, but it still can and does happen.

Obryn · Jul 21, 2017

schnee said:
Yeah, dude, there's a reason 'Monty Haul' campaigns were so widely sneered at. Because they were so prevalent.

The idea that all players back then were these mega-wise, tough, resilient thinkers is hogwash. Sure, they existed, but all throughout life, the only constant has bee Sturgeon's Law - that, and we all look at the past through rose-colored lenses.

I think it is different now, but the degree is less than I hear about in forums. And it's definitely a healthy balance of 'worse some ways, better in others'. IMO and all that.

One of the biggest reasons people hated Monty Haul campaigns is that things were weird back then. At least, they seem so to me - and keep in mind, I started playing in 1982.

You see, your character was your character. And it was totally normal to go from one DM to another DM and bring your character along for whatever adventure they were having. You kept your XP, your level, and most importantly your stuff. So if DM Dave was handing out Holy Avengers and letting you roll 9d6 for all of your stats, DM Gary would have to deal with it the next time you brought Grobdar the Terrible over for a game.

GameOgre · Jul 21, 2017

Obryn said:
One of the biggest reasons people hated Monty Haul campaigns is that things were weird back then. At least, they seem so to me - and keep in mind, I started playing in 1982.

You see, your character was your character. And it was totally normal to go from one DM to another DM and bring your character along for whatever adventure they were having. You kept your XP, your level, and most importantly your stuff. So if DM Dave was handing out Holy Avengers and letting you roll 9d6 for all of your stats, DM Gary would have to deal with it the next time you brought Grobdar the Terrible over for a game.

While this was true, many DM's developed short easy methods of cleaning a player character. Everything from oh look Elric with Stormbringer doesn't like you to you wake up with no treasure and strangely weak.

It got so if you did luck out and get great treasure, you didn't dare go to another DM for fear of this cleaning.

Oh oh oh also remember the old dead character in his game but he is still alive in that guys game!

guachi · Jul 21, 2017

Zardnaar said:
Yeah 1 level can be a pain, next time I run a brutal AD&D/B/X game I will probably have a treasure hunt. After Princes of the Apocalypse wraps I think we are going to play Adventure Conqueror King or 2E Darksun.

Some of the old adventures are very interesting. I was reading one last night in an old Dungeon for 10th level PCs and the adventure is a travelling circus which is actually a portable group of assassins run by a 20th level magic user.

The Jingling Mordo Circus!!! First issue of Dungeon I ever bought. Know that off the top of my head. It's really cool, indeed.

All the XP for reminding me of that.