D&D 5E Would Sub-class Feats Solve a Problem? (Is there a problem?)

Guest 6801328 · Jul 25, 2017

One thing I find myself thinking whenever I choose...or even read through...a sub-class is that it's not distinct enough from other subclasses. 4 abilities, some of which are often very minor, spread over 15-20 levels, doesn't seem like a lot.

It's kinda too late to redesign the entire edition (not that folks don't try!) but what if subclasses came with Feats that are just available to that subclass? Even just one or two. For people who wanted to go even further down the route of the chosen subclass?

Thoughts?

neogod22 · Jul 25, 2017

Deep Gnomes get a racial feat. I'm not sure, it will depend on the feat. In general, I think restricting a feats to subclasses limits creativity. If they want an ability to be used for that subclass only, they should just make it an ability.

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Tormyr · Jul 25, 2017

I have had a Champion, Battlemaster, and Eldritch Knight in the same campaign, and they all felt very different from early levels. So I do not see insufficient variation in the subclasses. That being said, properly balanced feats (or 5 levels of prestige classes) that magnified an element of a subclass would be fun.

Guest 6801328 · Jul 25, 2017

neogod22 said:
Deep Gnomes get a racial feat. I'm not sure, it will depend on the feat. In general, I think restricting a feats to subclasses limits creativity. If they want an ability to be used for that subclass only, they should just make it an ability.

That would be my inclination, too, but the number of available slots are so few. What if you have 6 great ideas for a Warlock, each of which is powerful enough to fill a slot, and you only have 4 slots?

Maybe make the last two Feats?

Imaro · Jul 25, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
One thing I find myself thinking whenever I choose...or even read through...a sub-class is that it's not distinct enough from other subclasses. 4 abilities, some of which are often very minor, spread over 15-20 levels, doesn't seem like a lot.

It's kinda too late to redesign the entire edition (not that folks don't try!) but what if subclasses came with Feats that are just available to that subclass? Even just one or two. For people who wanted to go even further down the route of the chosen subclass?

Thoughts?

I'm trying to think of an example where two sub-classes of a class feel the same and am drawing a blank. Could you give an example of two you feel aren't differentiated well?

Arilyn · Jul 25, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
One thing I find myself thinking whenever I choose...or even read through...a sub-class is that it's not distinct enough from other subclasses. 4 abilities, some of which are often very minor, spread over 15-20 levels, doesn't seem like a lot.

It's kinda too late to redesign the entire edition (not that folks don't try!) but what if subclasses came with Feats that are just available to that subclass? Even just one or two. For people who wanted to go even further down the route of the chosen subclass?

Thoughts?

Yes, we've been noticing this too. I think that might explain the often "meh" response to new sub-classes on UA. People aren't sure why they feel disappointed. Could be the sub-classes don't affect the class enough. Your idea is a good one. I feel lots of choice is important in class/level systems. Maybe not call them feats though, so people don't feel cheated. They could be listed in class description. Course this is adding something new to the system which is what you were trying to avoid!

Tony Vargas · Jul 25, 2017

Elfcrusher said:
It's kinda too late to redesign the entire edition (not that folks don't try!) but what if subclasses came with Feats that are just available to that subclass? Even just one or two. For people who wanted to go even further down the route of the chosen subclass?

Thoughts?

PRO: Easy to implement: Add the feats with the preq: Must be _________ sub-class.

CON: Arguably a 'feat tax.' (If you are this sub-class, you need to take this feat to get the full benefit of your sub-class choice.)

cmad1977 · Jul 25, 2017

Meh.

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Guest 6801328 · Jul 25, 2017

Imaro said:
I'm trying to think of an example where two sub-classes of a class feel the same and am drawing a blank. Could you give an example of two you feel aren't differentiated well?

It's not that the concepts aren't well differentiated, it's that there just aren't very many special abilities backing up that differentiation. Typically two by level 10? That's sufficient, I suppose, but minimally so.

Part of what is driving this is that every time I work on a home brew sub-class I make a long list of ideas for abilities, and then have a hard time paring it down to the 4 slots. Two of which will rarely even get used because so few characters reach those levels.

Guest 6801328 · Jul 25, 2017

Arilyn said:
Yes, we've been noticing this too. I think that might explain the often "meh" response to new sub-classes on UA. People aren't sure why they feel disappointed. Could be the sub-classes don't affect the class enough. Your idea is a good one. I feel lots of choice is important in class/level systems. Maybe not call them feats though, so people don't feel cheated. They could be listed in class description. Course this is adding something new to the system which is what you were trying to avoid!

Yes, exactly. I read the description and think, "Oooh...shiny! I love that concept." Then I read the abilities and think, "Hmm, ok. Is that it?"

D&D 5E Would Sub-class Feats Solve a Problem? (Is there a problem?)

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