D&D 5E What non-combat abilities should fighters have?

Nagol said:

They really aren't combat kings though. Oh, don't get me wrong; they are solid at combat, but all the classes are at least OK at combat. Having a Fighter-less party is easily within the bounds on normal play.

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Lost Soul said:

Can't you make that same point about any class though really? I mean you need certain archtypes such as healer but you really don't need a specific class such as cleric to have an effective healer In your group.

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Let's say your party healer is a druid with cure wounds. What do you forgo by not having a cleric? And is it significant? In other words, what's unique to the cleric (That the druid doesn't get)?

• Turn Undead
• Channel Divinity unique to subclass (e.g. banishing magical darkness & dealing radiant damage)
• Cleric-only spells like spare the dying (very useful for keeping low-level parties alive), sacred flame, thaumaturgy, guiding bolt, augury, prayer of healing, warding bond, spirit guardians, blade barrier, forbiddance, harm, planar ally, word of recall, conjure celestial, divine word, holy aura, & mass heal.

Not an amazing amount of differentiation, but it's definitely enough to distinguish having a Cleric from having a Druid as party healer.

Now turn it around, what is forgone by swapping out a fighter for a paladin or barbarian as the party tank? Maaaybe Action Surge?

Eubani said:

Or the flaw is that the Fighter sacrifices so much for no gain.

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Yeah, that is a valid perspective.

The problem I keep harping on is the focus the game has been taking for several iteration now. The rule set keeps reducing the base expectation of systems external to the PCs that help those without direct access to non-combat abilities to compensate. At the same time, the iterations keep increasing the class combat capability and survivability of historically weak classes so they can reasonably participate in combat. Much of the direct player action (find a henchman, buy a magic item, hire a specialist) have been removed or severely curtailed in the default setting. Much of the indirect support (skewed treasure tables, world-building factions, allies and resources) have been eliminated or barely existed in the first place.

Now a DM can counter much of the issue through world-building; providing factions a PC can nurture links with and turn to, allies off the field, a robust service economy, hand-picked treasure, etc. But the discussions in the DMG do not really touch on what is valuable and why it is so.

Oops wrong thread again.

Quickleaf said:

Now turn it around, what is forgone by swapping out a fighter for a paladin or barbarian as the party tank? Maaaybe Action Surge?

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Action Surge almost always translates to DPR, Rage & Smite each handle that. Second Wind is about durability, d12 HD & DR and
Lay on Hands can both handle that.
OTOH, swapping in a fighter for a barbarian doesn't exactly lose you much, either, overall - but the two are still nicely differentiated, the barbarian's modest AC/uber-hps & rage vs the fighters high AC/good hps & Action Surge.
While swapping in a fighter for a Paladin loses you social-pillar capability, healing, save bonuses, casting, etc... and may not even change armor/weapon/fighting-style mix.