DM's - What rolls do you make for your players?

Chronosome · Jul 20, 2003

I group the DM-rolls up on my DM-screen, "five esses" style:

Senses: Listen, Spot, Search
Stealth: Hide, Move Silently
Smarts: Any Knowledges, Spellcraft, Survival
Social: Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive
Saves: Fort, Ref, Will (I'll only roll these for hidden things like secret poison or charm)

And I'll occasionally ask the PC what his Use Rope skill is, since it comes up so rarely.

Treebore · Jul 20, 2003

I am on the bandwagon of rolling for anything their character has no reason to know they failed. That added element of mystery keeps them on their toes and makes them second guess. When their second guessing bogs down the game i tell them they are very confident of what they think, so they know it is time to move on and let the dead horse decompose.

Angcuru · Jul 20, 2003

For stuff like spot checks, will saves, and other stuff that affects the PCs but they don't know about, like seeing if they can see the dudes in ambush up ahead or if they get dominated by a sorcered hidden in an alley, then I have them make a roll, but don't tell them what it's for. I just tell them what happens if they fail or succeed. If they don't see that assassin hiding in the bushes, they won't know about him until he stabs the halfling in the neck.

Sam · Jul 20, 2003

What's been bugging me a bit lately is when the person with the highest search check in the group rolls poorly and doesn't break 20. I tell him that he's looked around but nothing stands out to him. At this point, since everyone else saw him roll poorly, they decide to search themselves. If the first person had rolled a 33 and didn't find anything they would be satisfied, but since he rolled 19 they search. That's one of the reasons that I'm thinking about rolling these types of checks for them. I'm concerned about taking some of their fun and control away from them though.

the Jester · Jul 20, 2003

Typically, I roll any checks the pcs don't know they're making, or won't know whether they succeed. This can include:

"Automatic" search rolls (elf passes a secret door, rogue passes a trap);
Sense Motive, Appraise, etc.;
Spot or Listen rolls they don't know they're making;
Sometimes others like Gather Information, Bluff, Disguise, etc.

Ranes · Jul 20, 2003

I wouldn't roll a check for something a player has asked to do.

"I try to move silently down the corridor."

"I search the room quickly."

"I hide."

...And so on. I'd let the players make those rolls. If a player rolls badly, prompting another player to attempt the same thing, that's okay. If the rogue rolls a 3 on his search check, I might be tempted to intrepret the roll as, "Boris sifts through the debris half-heartedly and gives up, finding nothing but scraps of parchment." And it's fine if one of the other players isn't happy with the sound of that and attempts a search of his own.

However, as others have said here, there are times when it simply isn't appropriate for a player to make a roll. Take spotting a prepared ambush, for example. If the DM calls for a spot check at some point along the PCs' journey, they know there's something they're looking for, whether they make the spot check or not. Bang goes the element of surprise. If, on the other hand, you have some pre-rolled d20 results on your scratch pad, you can simply apply the next one in the list to the PC with the highest spot modifier, at the moment when the PCs have line of sight to the undergrowth in which the orcs are hiding. If they fail the spot check, they walk into the ambush (or at least move one round closer). If they succeed, you can say, "Boris notices a sudden movement from the bushes ahead and glimpses a bow being drawn. Everyone roll initiative." Incidentally, pre-rolled dice get around the problem of the DM suddenly rolling and then staying quiet (such as when the roll results in a failed check), which also alerts players to something of which their characters would be unaware.

Explain to your players why you would make such rolls on their behalf, that it will improve their game, not detract from their fun or their control over their characters' actions. I did this with my group on day one. Some of the less experienced players were suspicious at first, especially when they found their PCs stumbling into the occasional surprise combat round. However, they've now seen the other side of it, where I point out to them things that their PCs see or hear, because of these secret rolls.

Have fun and good luck.

haiiro · Jul 21, 2003

the Jester said:
Typically, I roll any checks the pcs don't know they're making, or won't know whether they succeed.

This sounds like an excellent approach.

Zustiur · Jul 21, 2003

Currently I let my players roll any checks they are required to make.

The only times that I'll roll for them is if:
A) there is a large number of rolls required ( I have a dice program to speed this up but only 3 d20s)
B) I'm working things out way in advance, like writing up the adventure - and knowing the result of a roll will save pages of writing.

To get around players making checks only when the best spotter fails - tell them up front, either you're paying attention or your letting "Mr. Spotter" do everything. No deciding after the event.

Zustiur.

GMVictory · Jul 21, 2003

Sam said:
What's been bugging me a bit lately is when the person with the highest search check in the group rolls poorly and doesn't break 20. I tell him that he's looked around but nothing stands out to him. At this point, since everyone else saw him roll poorly, they decide to search themselves. If the first person had rolled a 33 and didn't find anything they would be satisfied, but since he rolled 19 they search. That's one of the reasons that I'm thinking about rolling these types of checks for them. I'm concerned about taking some of their fun and control away from them though.

In the example you cite above and in similar instances, if the PC is recognized as the best by the rest of the group or is the only one who checks and the player doesn't roll well, then I won't allow them to roll. I rule that if the "pro" or your teammate tells you there's nothing, then there's nothing. Why would you doubt him? Shouldn't the PC be insulted when he is ignored and everyone else starts checking too?

I never make any rolls for my players. They get to make them all.

I also, on an irregular basis, ask my player(s) to make a die roll without telling them why. No matter the result of the roll, I tell them, "Okay." If they ask what happened, I tell them, "Don't worry about it."