All NPCs have attitude.

Teflon Billy · Jul 22, 2003

It pissed me off no end.

In the old Ars Magica game, my guy had intimidation galore, but it never worked on anything important. Our enemies were never cowed, it was just the "all-badass parade" no matter how well i rolled.

The same thing happened in our first game of 3E; no matter how well I rolled, the best result I could hope for was that they were now "scared of You", but if their actions reflected it in any way, I couldn't tell.

Spycraft has some actual mechanics for intimidation, but I can't recall them offhand. Seems a step in the right direction.

Mark · Jul 22, 2003

A number of newer DMs can fall into the trap of making every NPC a "tough guy" and some never grow out of it. Conventions and magazines used to be two of the few places where a lot of people could gain some insight into DMing outside of their own insular group. Fortunately, I think, the Internet has broadened the horizons of a lot of people.

Argus Decimus Mokira · Jul 22, 2003

Hey

I played in a Vampire chronicle (and still do) off and on for the past ... oh, 8 years. Seems to be that every single person my 8th generation Ventrue primogen runs into is an uber-powerful, angsty, bad-mothaflugger with 15 dots in Potence and Celerity. And of course they all wear tenchcoats. And not a single one fo them has a problem with threatening a primogen ...

I guess that's what I get for modeling a character after Monty Burns.

Thanks
-Matt

ColonelHardisson · Jul 22, 2003

Mark said:
A number of newer DMs can fall into the trap of making every NPC a "tough guy" and some never grow out of it

Yes, exactly. Not only did my first few DMs, way back in the very early 80s, fall into this category, but I'm embarassed to admit that I was one of them back then. I think it is a combination of wanting to protect one's campaign world from the PCs, so they don't alter the stuff one doesn't want altered, and the adversarial relationship between player and DM of the time that is lampooned by HackMaster.

Now, of course, my NPCs can be beaten, if the PCs are of sufficient level. I let the PCs affect their world. However, that also means there are consequences; if they kill or bully merchants, for example, eventually they'll run afoul of the local law, or start running across merchants who have hired bodyguards or mercenaries to protect them from the brigands that they've heard about that have been attacking other merchants.

Shemeska · Jul 22, 2003

I know the feeling, I played under a DM who worshipped elves, and seemingly every single elven NPC was perfect, could do no wrong, and had an attitude to match their bloated ego. Saying a single wrong word to one of them doomed a character of mine in a game. Again with the gaming group from hell.

I try not to do the same in my own games. NPC's come in various flavors, each with their own history and motivations and skills. Some may be more skilled in some areas than the PC's, some less so in other areas. It's a decent mix. There's never a 100th level wizard/rogue/archmage hanging around to dispense advice, talk down to the PC's, and save them and make them feel useless every other minute like I've seen some DM's use. Ick. Make the PC's feel useful, a part of the plot and the world and they'll keep coming back for more.

But you can't do that if they feel the deck is stacked against them as far as NPC attitudes go. *comf*

Agback · Jul 22, 2003

G'day

Yes I have played in such a campaign. You have described it so accurately that I am going to e-mail this thread's URL to one of the other players.

Regards,

Agback

JoeGKushner · Jul 22, 2003

One of the DMs now has this. He's much better at controlling it now but at one point, whenever we played we just sat back and asked him what was the plan for tonight's episode of "NPC Theater."

Brekke · Jul 22, 2003

Quasqueton said:
Have you ever played in a game where all the NPCs you meet are more powerful than your PCs, and they all have attitudes?

Where the DM extensively describes each NPC as some fancy badass who could probably squish your head? Where they all talk down to you (if they bother to talk to you at all)?

Where no matter what your PCs do or can do, you feel like you are at the bottom of the barrell?

Where the world always seems to scale or adjust to your PCs' abilities, so that no matter your power level, you are always scrambling to survive in a world too big for you?

Quasqueton

I had a DM like this, it felt like we were her pet NPC's henchmen. He was perfect always knew what was going on never shared his knowledge with us.

And the main bad guy always got away no matter what we did. It got to the point where I just stopped showing. I understand my character has now been made into the wife of the NPC.

Carol

Gellion · Jul 22, 2003

Shemeska said:
I know the feeling, I played under a DM who worshipped elves, and seemingly every single elven NPC was perfect, could do no wrong, and had an attitude to match their bloated ego. Saying a single wrong word to one of them doomed a character of mine in a game. Again with the gaming group from hell.

I try not to do the same in my own games. NPC's come in various flavors, each with their own history and motivations and skills. Some may be more skilled in some areas than the PC's, some less so in other areas. It's a decent mix. There's never a 100th level wizard/rogue/archmage hanging around to dispense advice, talk down to the PC's, and save them and make them feel useless every other minute like I've seen some DM's use. Ick. Make the PC's feel useful, a part of the plot and the world and they'll keep coming back for more.

But you can't do that if they feel the deck is stacked against them as far as NPC attitudes go. *comf*

What is that DMs adress.*Brandishes metal baseball bat*