D&D 5E Could Mage Hand carry wand of Orcus?

plisnithus8 · Aug 22, 2017

LordEntrails said:
On the point of using the wand un-attuned, certainly it can be. The 7 charges of the wand can be used by anyone holding it.

The description seems to have two valid interpretations:
1. If you hold it, you get some powers; if you attune, you get others.
2. You have to attune to it because in subtitle it says "requires attunement" and the charge issue refers to certain beings if they are attuned.

I'm on the fence, see it both ways.
I'd love for others to weigh in.

Ovinomancer · Aug 22, 2017

LordEntrails said:
On the point of using the wand un-attuned, certainly it can be. The 7 charges of the wand can be used by anyone holding it (mage hand can not activate it, see previous post).

Otherwise someone attuned to it would not be able to cast those spells for fewer charges.

As for the protection, if you hold it, you get it, attuned or not. If the Mage Hand holds it, you do not get the benefit.

Again, if you are not going to try and attune it, no problem holding it (except for the moral implications and the wand trying to influence you).

If the item requires attunement, none of it's features work without attunement unless specifically called out. In this case, the benefits are for those that attuned the wand AND are followers of or actually are Orcus.

LordEntrails · Aug 22, 2017

plisnithus8 said:
The description seems to have two valid interpretations:
1. If you hold it, you get some powers; if you attune, you get others.
2. You have to attune to it because in subtitle it says "requires attunement" and the charge issue refers to certain beings if they are attuned.

I'm on the fence, see it both ways.
I'd love for others to weigh in.

Admittedly the entry is not clear or well written in this regard. But I thought there are other items listed as require attunement that the descriptions clearly show they can be used unattuned to lesser effect/benefit. But I can't find an example at the moment.

Eitehr way, the DMcan make a ruling that would work just fine IMO.

neogod22 · Aug 22, 2017

Elon Tusk said:
DMG p. 227: "The wand can magically change in size to better conform to the grip of its user." This doesn't seem to be a feature that needs attuning.

EDIT: On second reading, the word "user" bothers me. It uses that term before talking about attainment, but it seems unclear if you could use the wand without attuning to it.
Under Spells, it says, "While holding it, youcan use an action and expend 1 or more of its chargesto cast one of the following spells...While attuned to the wand, Orcus or a followerblessed by him can cast each of the wand's spells using2 fewer charges." I was thinking that some powers could be used unattained, and increased if attuned, but I think it is saying specific users get those attunement ONLY if they are are attuned.

The answer is no. You can't use the wand without attuning to it. The wand is also intelligent and would make itself too heavy to be picked up by mage hand, because it wants to be picked up.

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neogod22 · Aug 23, 2017

LordEntrails said:
On the point of using the wand un-attuned, certainly it can be. The 7 charges of the wand can be used by anyone holding it (mage hand can not activate it, see previous post).

Otherwise someone attuned to it would not be able to cast those spells for fewer charges.

As for the protection, if you hold it, you get it, attuned or not. If the Mage Hand holds it, you do not get the benefit.

Again, if you are not going to try and attune it, no problem holding it (except for the moral implications and the wand trying to influence you).

This is wrong. In the attunement section it says: without becoming attuned to an item that requires attunment, a creature may only use the nonmagical benefits, unless its description States otherwise.

So you must be attuned to the wand to use any of the properties including using the charges.

About the cost reduction, it says: While attuned, ORCUS OR A FOLLOWER BLESSED BY HIM, can cast the wand's spells using 2 fewer charges (minimum of 0).

This means you have to be attuned, and blessed by Orcus to get the spell cost reduction.

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plisnithus8 · Aug 23, 2017

neogod22 said:
The wand is also intelligent and would make itself too heavy to be picked up by mage hand, because it wants to be picked up.

The intelligent wand "feigns devotion to its current user."
Why would it make itself too heavy to be picked up?

neogod22 · Aug 23, 2017

plisnithus8 said:
The intelligent wand "feigns devotion to its current user."
Why would it make itself too heavy to be picked up?

The wand is actually a mace. Why would it make itself too heavy for mage hand? It's an evil artifact that likes nothing more than to devour souls. When someone touches it, it's save or die. Even if you make your save, you can die. Do you really think it's going to let a wizard mage hand it around the world?

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plisnithus8 · Aug 23, 2017

neogod22 said:
The wand is actually a mace. Why would it make itself too heavy for mage hand? It's an evil artifact that likes nothing more than to devour souls. When someone touches it, it's save or die. Even if you make your save, you can die. Do you really think it's going to let a wizard mage hand it around the world?

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I think there are other interpretations of how it might act. It wants to corrupt its user - in this case an eldritch knight not a wizard - which in many cases could mean have the user do more evils instead of just being killed.

steeldragons · Aug 23, 2017

Elon Tusk said:
DMG p. 227: "The wand can magically change in size to better conform to the grip of its user." This doesn't seem to be a feature that needs attuning.

EDIT: On second reading, the word "user" bothers me.

On the first note, the "Wand of Orcus" isn't really a "wand." Even shrinking down to a mortal's size, it's more of a mace or a morningstar than a "wand." I'd say it is certainly over 5 or 10 lbs.

On the second note, in any event, I would definitely not rule that a Mage Hand counts as a "user" of anything. Even the Arcane Trickster's "Legerdemain" specifically calls out the use of thieves' tool [at a distance]-notably light, slender picks and such- and picking pockets as something that can do. Picking up a mace sized/weighted object, I think is clearly outside the feature's purview.

But, ya know, that's me and my rulings. Other DMs' rulings may vary.

neogod22 · Aug 23, 2017

plisnithus8 said:
I think there are other interpretations of how it might act. It wants to corrupt its user - in this case an eldritch knight not a wizard - which in many cases could mean have the user do more evils instead of just being killed.

The DM's guide has it at Chaotic Evil. Anyone attempts to attune to it must make a DC17 CON save. 10d6 necrotic damage on a pass, death and raised as a zombie on a fail. If you live, sure the wand will try and corrupt you. It serves Orcus, but it doesn't care if you live or die. If you die, you become a zombie until it can find a new welder.

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D&D 5E Could Mage Hand carry wand of Orcus?

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