D&D 5E OrcPub is Closing Down

SuperTD said:

He was definitely including non SRD content, just rephrasing it slightly. While he didn't include text from non core books, every subclass was available and so were all the feats. This was always going to happen, especially since he was making money off of the kickstarter. WotC were completely justified as much as this sucks.

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To my limited understanding of American law, game mechanics are not protected by copyright (nor are forms, incidentally). But I guess that doesn't really matter if any company can just draw a line in the legal sand wherever they please, on threat of suing the dosh out of those who don't comply.

Gardens & Goblins said:

FYI - you can still access a cached version of OrcPub through various sites, which can then be run offline.

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Don't you think that counts as talking about and advocating piracy?

Yama Dai O said:

To my limited understanding of American law...

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You really should've stopped there.

dropbear8mybaby said:

You really should've stopped there.

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1, he is correct, which is the pillar upon which OSRIC stands, and, 2, I would imagine a great many conversations are built upon lay understanding of any given subject. That said, the idea of OrcPub was pretty awesome, it was greatly helpful to my wife, now, if only there was a paid option that had all of the options, as my wife just used the free SRD version. Oh, and yes, I own all the relevant books, so I suppose for me (my wife, really), it really was about the "ui", at least as far as access to the information goes.

I haven’t been back on the site recently, but have noticed the creator’s Facebook posts. He is implementing customizable elements into his builder so that you can add in anything you want (including official options from outside the SRD). It’s still a work in progress, but he hopes this will skirt enough around legal restrictions that he can keep the site going.

Rellott said:

.... It’s still a work in progress, but he hopes this will skirt enough around legal restrictions that he can keep the site going.

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He's probably going the way others have done. Facilitate the ability to import "configuration' files so that others can distribute the stolen property via files on other forums and he can't be held accountable for it.

Wouldn't it be nice though if WotC had some program like the DMsG that would allow the community the way to get a license to do creative things with their IP? Which makes me wonder, why couldn't he just see if he could sell his modules through the DMsG? You know, actually reach out and ask for permission to do things with the IP creators rather than find a way to work around them?

He did at one point try that and got shut down.

The creator posted the following update on his Kickstarter just a few hours ago...
“
A fan has created a petition to convince Wizards of the Coast to license with OrcPub. If you'd like to see the non-SRD content added back, signing the petition could help. Thanks Ryan and everyone else who decides to sign and/or share!
http://bit.ly/OrcPubPetition

Also, I've been cranking out homebrew builders in OrcPub2. I've added spell, background, and race builders along with an import/export page. I hope to have the class, feat, and monster builders up within the next few days. I plan to make a ton of refinements to all of them so please let me know what you think.
“

LordEntrails said:

... You know, actually reach out and ask for permission to do things with the IP creators rather than find a way to work around them?

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The problem is twofold. First, WotC has to protect its IP, so it has to either C&D people who go beyond a certain point of usage, or license them to use the IP. The second problem is that WotC seems to think that 5e is so amazingly popular that they don't need to actually support the community, they can just turn it upside down and collect the change that falls out of its pockets. That's why they will never license a free complete character builder. Never mind that to use that character you'll need to have the books anyway, they want you to to pay them a hundred bucks to use their online character builder.

So, as long as 5e is super popular, there will always be a critical mass of community members who will "find a way to work around them" to get the the tools they want, the ones that make it faster and easier to run the game they've already bought the books for. Sure, there are also plenty of community members who are willing to buy the same book 3 times at full price while cheerfully insisting that it isn't a rip-off, and WotC will be delighted take as much as they can get. Meanwhile, at least in my opinion, they are missing an opportunity to create loyalty in their player base.

Some day in the not too distant future, someone is going to publish a game that is more popular than 5e. Maybe it will be Pathfinder 2, who knows? If it is, it could very well be because Paizo just really seems to respect their customers more, and focus on giving them what they want in the long term instead of trying to squeeze them for every dollar they can in the short term.

epithet said:

That's why they will never license a free complete character builder.

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You mean like DND Beyond, a free character builder they have already licensed?

Or the character builder I use myself, Microsoft Word?

Or a pen and paper?

epithet said:

…they want you to to pay them a hundred bucks to use their online character builder.

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Again, you can use DND Beyond for free (apart from the cost of connecting to the Internet) to use the free content. To use it with paid content you have to, well, pay for the content.

Curse got no money when you bought the physical books from a bookstore so it is not fair to make Curse give you paid stuff for free, especially when there isn't any way to prove that a customer did actually buy the books from a bookstore.

As an aside, if Wizards had thought about digital issues five years ago then there are ways they could have worked this out. For example, a unique code in every physical book, redeemable for one copy of a watermarked digital book. This would, however, have made the product more expensive and would have created issues if Wizards licenced multiple vendors for digital distribution.

epithet said:

Meanwhile, at least in my opinion, they are missing an opportunity to create loyalty in their player base.

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I suspect that Wizards, as well as Curse and your FLBS, are much more interested in their customer base than their player base.

Greenstone.Walker said:

You mean like DND Beyond, a free character builder they have already licensed?
...
I suspect that Wizards, as well as Curse and your FLBS, are much more interested in their customer base than their player base.

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Note that I said complete. DDB is limited to the SRD content unless, as you point out, you shell out for the PHB etc all over again on that system. Even if you believe the idea that the PHB is a significantly different product than the one you already own, I don't imagine many people would be keen to buy the PHB just to get access to a character creator.

Some people like to do everything manually, using Word (or Excel, or a notepad), and some like a tool to make it pretty and convenient. The latter group is going to keep making tools like OrcPub for as long as 5e is popular.

Regarding your last statement, I'm certain you're right. My point is that the apparent eagerness to charge people several times for the same book is perhaps not the best way to make sure that, in the long term, the player base and the customer base overlap as much as possible.

As for my "FLBS," if I'm not buying MTG packs, or whatever Poke-thingie they're flogging the hell out of, they haven't got the time of day for me. I think they only have a few D&D books because WotC bundled it with MTG packs. Although, now that I think of it, they might be obnoxious to the Magic customers, too. If I want a book from a brick-and-mortar, I'll go to Barnes & Noble... they're always happy to see me, and they have coffee and albums on vinyl.