D&D 5E Dungeon movement and Time Tracking

Following on from lots of helpful feedback on some Searching/Passive Perception tweaks, I was hoping to get some comments on the closely related ideas I had about running movement and time tracking in a dungeon. Once again, a lot here is stolen from @iserith and Angry GM, but with some twists of my own.

First, some observations:

• The different paces of movement in the PHB are pretty much irrelevant for most dungeons. Being able to travel 400' rather than 200' / minute makes basically no difference during exploration unless the dungeon is enormous or you're running some sort of chase/escape sequence (which is probably better handled in a more abstract fashion anyway). The vast majority of the PCs' time is going to be spent in combat, detailed searching or other interaction, unless we return to something more like 1E exploration rates
• Nevertheless, Gary was right to emphasise the importance of time tracking - lots of things depend on it mechanically (spells, resources), and, done properly, it really creates a sense of tension and excitement.
• The speed at which the PCs move and interact with the dungeon should present some non-obvious tactical choices
• The major variables that we're playing with seem to be:
  1. How much time passes - which will tick down resources + move external time limits closer
  2. How carefully can the PCs observe their environment - including searching for traps + secrets, and spotting/hearing monsters before the monsters notice them
  3. How much the PCs make their presence known, which generally translates to an increased chance of a random encounter.

My approach:

Time
Dungeon time is measured in blocks of 10 minutes. Anything that takes less than 10 minutes isn't tracked. Wandering monster checks are made every 20 minutes. Most basic dungeoneering activities are assumed to take 10 minutes - picking a lock, searching a room, interacting with a puzzle, combat, etc. Yes, it's a big fudge; but neither I or any of my players is interested in minute by minute timekeeping and this is a reasonable compromise to keep time-based tension without having to do that. There's always room for judgement calls in specific cases.

Activities
Players determine what activity their character is doing at any given point. The core activities are:

• Checking for secrets + traps
• Watching for monsters
• Mapping

These can be combined with moving around (see below) but any other declared action that requires substantial engagement will be mutually exclusive with the ones listed above.

Movement around the dungeon
When moving between rooms, along corridors etc, PCs can move cautiously, at normal pace, or fast.

Normal movement
When moving normally, the time taken between rooms/areas of the dungeon is not tracked - assumed to be irrelevant relative to the time spent on other activities. At this pace, however, stealth is not possible. Noticing hidden things is done with the passive perception of any PCs looking for them, and the Perception DCs are 5 higher than they would be for an active search. Sneaky monsters will roll stealth against the best passive perception of PCs keeping watch.

Slow movement
When moving slowly, each section of corridor takes 10 minutes. Again, this is a big fudge and there will need to be some judgement calls - a 200' corridor might take 20 minutes, crossing to the room directly opposite might take no time; but the default assumption is that if you come out of a room, walk down a corridor, and enter another room, the whole process takes 10 minutes at a slow pace.

It is assumed that PCs are moving stealthily at this pace. Monsters will have to roll Perception against the PCs weakest passive stealth to notice them + the alert level will not be increased (see below)

Detecting secrets/traps is done by passive perception, but with the normal detection DC for an active search. If PCs really want to roll for some reason, they can do so, with PP effectively acting as a floor.¹ Note that I will also make an effort to provide clues to suggest the presence of secrets/traps in general areas, and having a PP that exceeds a trap detection DC will probably just give you a solid clue as to the presence of a trap - seeing the tripwire or a strange seam in the floor. There's room for some old-skool descriptive searching/trap-finding here for those that want it. See my other post (linked above) for some indications of roughly how I would handle this.

Sneaky monsters will roll stealth against the best passive perception of PCs looking out for them.

Fast movement
This is unlikely to be relevant in most cases for reasons mentioned earlier on. It's the standard 400' / minute fast movement rate. You automatically fail all your Perception checks for secrets at this pace, and you have a -5 penalty to PP against sneaky monsters.

Searching and Interacting with Rooms

• Searching a normal sized room for hidden things takes 10 minutes and involves a normal Wisdom(Perception) check against detection DC of hidden items
• Players can choose to do a hurried search (no time advancement), but they do so at disadvantage, and they increase the alert level (see below) by 1 (because: noise)
• If players are not happy with the results of a normal (not hurried) search, they can choose to spend time to increase the value of the D20 roll. Every 10 extra minutes they spend looking adds 4 to their roll; the value of the roll cannot be increased beyond 20 before bonuses. Effectively this is a slightly nuanced version of taking 20. A player may do this successively with the DM relaying any new information they find each time. Obviously the DM will also be making Random Encounter checks every 20 minutes as well!
• Note that there is nothing stopping the PCs using this same "take up to 20" mechanic in a corridor if they are happy to spend the extra time searching
• Sneaky monsters will roll stealth against the best passive perception of PCs looking out for them - best make sure you have a lookout.
• Mutatis mutandis this same mechanic can be applied to most exploration tasks - puzzles, skill challenges etc

Random Encounters and the Alert Level
The alert level of the dungeon starts at 1. Every time the PCs move between rooms at anything faster than a slow pace, they increase the alert level. Every time the PCs hurry an exploration task, they increase the alert level. Every 20 minutes, the DM checks for a Random Encounter by rolling a D20. If it comes up at the alert level or less, he rolls for an encounter on the appropriate table. Whenever a particular encounter happens and is dealt with by the PCs, it should be crossed off the list. If it is rolled again at a later point, no encounter occurs, or, better yet, the PCs notice some sign of the carnage they have inflicted - a rat dragging a goblin's severed finger into its burrow or somesuch.

The overall result should be that slow and careful movement wastes resources, but makes random encounters less likely over a given period of time, and gives the PCs more options for avoid them (better chance of noticing the encounter before it befalls them). Gung-ho charging through the dungeon reduces the number of encounter checks, but quickly increases the chances that each one will result in an encounter, and consequently means encounters will happen closer together. Defeating/surviving numerous random encounters will gradually reduce the chances of future encounters, however, as the PCs slowly de-populate the area.

The exact mechanism for running the alert level/WM check thing could be tweaked. The alert level could be a modifier to a roll on a single table, with more dangerous encounters at higher results and "NO ENCOUNTER" lower down. Might need to be 2d20 or something to make that work.

Phew. That was a long one. Thoughts? (other than "TL;DR, it's too complicated"! Remember that I'm running this on Roll20 and I'm a JS programmer, so automating stuff is fairly straightforward for me...)

¹ I've changed my mind on this. Allowing the whole "PP is a floor" thing does horrible violence to the probability math and is unnecessary given that I've set different DCs for casual examination (which might be done via PP most of the time) vs active searching (which may be done via explicit roll most of the time)

Overall it looks good. I may check random encounters every hour or even less though. It would depend on the dungeon though. An old tomb with several rooms with undead and maybe an elemental may have not random encounters unless I wanted another NPC group to come in behind the PCs. A goblin warren underground with a hundred rooms may be every 20 minutes or hour.

Generally I just wing time in both dungeons and underground until it becomes needed. If the PCs use a spell that lasts for an hour then I tend to check off 10 minute chunks. Sometimes they try to hurry and blow through rooms to max out the spell. They miss everything hidden or secret in the rooms and do not even loot the bodies, or just check for big things. I may only check off 5 minutes in this case. If there is a tomb they are going into and it has 6-7 rooms that take 1-2 nights of playtime it does not matter if the PCs go in the tomb in the morning and come out at 10am, noon, 3pm ,or after supper. Generally they are out of spells and HP and need a rest. My game wraps up until next week and we start fresh. Once in a great while there is a reason to not let rest or to have something happen if they do not get out in a certain time. Something like a dam breaking and the tunnels flooding.

aco175 said:

Overall it looks good. I may check random encounters every hour or even less though. It would depend on the dungeon though. An old tomb with several rooms with undead and maybe an elemental may have not random encounters unless I wanted another NPC group to come in behind the PCs. A goblin warren underground with a hundred rooms may be every 20 minutes or hour.

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Bear in mind that the frequency of the check is only one part of the equation - the probability of success also comes into it. In order to keep the tension high I want to be rolling frequently - the players need to feel threatened by staying in the dungeon rather than just wandering around taking in the scenery. Initially, the chance of an encounter is only 1 in 20, so even at a check every 20 minutes, it still amounts to less than 1 in 6 per hour. Obviously if they start haring around the dungeon without taking any care to be stealthy that probability is going to go up quickly, but that's kind of the idea. But yes, clearly this is something that needs to be tweaked depending on the adventure in question. I'm primarily thinking of large, multi-level complexes that provide long-term adventuring opportunities rather than small 1-shots.

aco175 said:

Generally I just wing time in both dungeons and underground until it becomes needed. If the PCs use a spell that lasts for an hour then I tend to check off 10 minute chunks. Sometimes they try to hurry and blow through rooms to max out the spell. They miss everything hidden or secret in the rooms and do not even loot the bodies, or just check for big things. I may only check off 5 minutes in this case. If there is a tomb they are going into and it has 6-7 rooms that take 1-2 nights of playtime it does not matter if the PCs go in the tomb in the morning and come out at 10am, noon, 3pm ,or after supper. Generally they are out of spells and HP and need a rest. My game wraps up until next week and we start fresh. Once in a great while there is a reason to not let rest or to have something happen if they do not get out in a certain time. Something like a dam breaking and the tunnels flooding.

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Generally, this is what I've been doing as well. The reason I want to do something more robust now is because I want to introduce a greater sense of danger and tension. I really want the players to feel that they are in a hostile environment and every minute they spend brings them that much closer to a sticky end.

In my mind 10 minutes of repeated activity (stealth) boils down to a passive score. Many players like to roll to determine what their stealth is, so not all players would agree. With these rules I may consider comparing the median passive stealth score of the group to the passive perception of the monsters when the party is moving in slow speed.

Another thing to consider is the addition of time in searching. Why make a roll with a +4 or +8 bonus when the player says, "I'm going to spend 30 minutes tossing this room upside down to make sure there is no hidden treasure." Although that statement is vague in where the character is searching, it give me a good idea that they want to be thorough and are willing to spend some time to meet that goal. This would also mean they find any hidden object or a clue that something is out of place (i.e. something is rattling inside of a desk even while all the drawers are open or removed)without a roll needed.

I'm thinking about how I might apply this to Princes of the Apocalypse. I don't see the wondering monster rules fitting too well. That might be because I use wondering monsters to control the rest schedule / resource usage of the characters. I'm not sure I would want to give the dice the power to control if a wondering monster comes up behind a party when they've been cautious about moving through the dungeon.

cooperjer said:

In my mind 10 minutes of repeated activity (stealth) boils down to a passive score. Many players like to roll to determine what their stealth is, so not all players would agree. With these rules I may consider comparing the median passive stealth score of the group to the passive perception of the monsters when the party is moving in slow speed.

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Or you can go with a version of what AngryGM does for group checks, although I imagine some people won't be comfortable with that - it's quite a big change, if a reasonable one, to my mind.

cooperjer said:

Another thing to consider is the addition of time in searching. Why make a roll with a +4 or +8 bonus when the player says, "I'm going to spend 30 minutes tossing this room upside down to make sure there is no hidden treasure." Although that statement is vague in where the character is searching, it give me a good idea that they want to be thorough and are willing to spend some time to meet that goal. This would also mean they find any hidden object or a clue that something is out of place (i.e. something is rattling inside of a desk even while all the drawers are open or removed)without a roll needed.

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That depends on how long a search you believe is required to give automatic success. If there's a DC25 secret door in the room, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that an hour's search is required to guarantee finding it. All I've done is allow players to skew that a bit with the initial search roll. If that's not to your taste, then I don't think it does any violence to the system to have a simple take 20 mechanic instead - be that an hour or 30 minutes.

Depending on your campaign style, it may matter that there are things that are in principle un-findable for a given character without the player giving significantly more specificity in their action declaration. If you've got a secret door that's DC30, it's unlikely that any low-level character will ever find with a straight search roll. But perhaps they will find clues that will enable a player to work out the opening mechanism without finding it directly, or perhaps this is a location that you expect them to return to at later levels - so such a DC isn't necessarily pointless. Either way it matters that there's a limit to what the characters can find, however long they search.

cooperjer said:

I'm not sure I would want to give the dice the power to control if a wondering monster comes up behind a party when they've been cautious about moving through the dungeon.

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Well, first off, being cautious isn't always a clear tactical choice - because it costs you time, and more time means more chance that you're going to bump into something. There's a real tradeoff to make here and removing that means that players are more likely to say "we stealth all the time". That said, OoTA is a bit different because there are big distances involved, so a slow movement pace has a much bigger impact on resource usage that it does in a typical dungeon. I'd be cautious applying what I've described here to that adventure without modification.

Secondly, remember that being cautious also gives you a significantly improved chance of seeing the monsters before they see you, especially if the monsters aren't making a special effort to be stealthy. At that point there are lots of interesting options for avoiding a combat encounter. To me that's a realistic result - you're more likely to come across other creatures if you hang around longer, but you can usually hide from them if you're proceeding cautiously.

Looks good overall. Just two thoughts.

First, 10 minute lockpicking is all well and fine until your have a Rogue (Thief) in your party lockpicking as a bonus action.

Second, encounter distance is conspicuously absent from your guidelines. It would make sense for slower/careful pace to allow noticing monsters earlier on, and thus increasing starting encounter distance.

Quickleaf said:

Looks good overall. Just two thoughts.

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Thanks for the feedback!

Quickleaf said:

First, 10 minute lockpicking is all well and fine until your have a Rogue (Thief) in your party lockpicking as a bonus action.

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Hmm. Is that really a problem? That's one of the archetype's special abilities, and I think having lockpicking take '10 minutes' (this is, after all, an abstract approximation) by default gives that ability some real crunch. If lockpicking is quick (a few seconds/minute) normally, this ability really makes no practical difference unless you're picking a lock in the middle of a combat - which is surely a pretty rare edge case.

Quickleaf said:

Second, encounter distance is conspicuously absent from your guidelines. It would make sense for slower/careful pace to allow noticing monsters earlier on, and thus increasing starting encounter distance.

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Good point - this is something I haven't fully worked out yet. I'd figured that this would be handled via the stealth mechanic - since careful movement defaults to stealth under this system. If the monsters fail their perception rolls then the PCs get a chance to act before the monsters notice them (unless the monsters are also stealthy and PCs fail Perception - but that's not something I'd do with wandering monsters very often because I think it's a bit too "gotcha"). This could be translated into "encounter distance", although, in practice that might be more appropriate for very large/open dungeons/the Underdark. Most of the time I think I'm going to find myself saying "You hear the sounds of something approaching around the corner/on the other side of the door, what do you do?", with the presumption that the PCs have enough time to make some simple preparations (hiding/moving away/laying basic ambush). It comes to much the same thing in the end but it just saves a bit of extra maths each time.