The ineptitude of the WotC/Hasbro marketing machine

Ok, I have had this percolating in my head for quite some time.

You have one of the most recognized toy companies in the world, owner of such tremendously popular lines as G.I. Joe and Transformers (at least tremendously popular in the 80's and still with Gen X'ers)

Through their subsidiary WotC, they own the most popular RPG brand and system on the market, hands down.

They also own a chain of shopping mall retail stores that are perfectly positioned to sell Hasbro/WotC product.

Why is there no cross marketing? Why is there no seemingly no communication between WotC and Hasbro? Why do fabulous marketing opportunities seem to be totally missed?

1) European Hasbro just released a new Dungeons and Dragons board game. We need something similar in the States. You don't need the D&D adventure game, you need a tactical Hero Quest style board game that can be mass marketed through toy and hobby stores everywhere and especially through the existing chain of WotC stores.

A boardgame that, like Hero Quest can include some light RPG elements. A boardgame that can serve as a spring board to D&D itself. Although I wouldn't call it Dungeons and Dragons just because of the stigma attached. I would call it "Adventure Quest" or something similar. Advertise during afternoon and morning cartoons and you have a surefire hit. Kids will ask their parents, parents will buy it. They play, have fun, and lo and behold they find out that the game is related to D&D. Well, surely D&D can't be all bad if all its a board game. (Remember people, the actual role-playing element of RPGs is often the biggest barrier to entry for new consumers) Start with the tactical wargame elements and slowly lead people into the RPG elements so naturally they don't even know they are playing an RPG.

Include rules for "Advanced Play" that include even more RPG elements. And finally include a section on how to upgrade the game by purchasing the D&D core rulebooks.

2) Lets see RPGs dedicated to Hasbro properties. Lets see a Transformers RPG and a GI Joe RPG. Again with a little tinkering you could even release a boardgame version that can springboard people into the pen and paper RPG books.

3) Lets see Forgotten Realms action figures or a cartoon show for mornings or afternoons. FR has all the ingredients required for a successful series. The secret to cartoon show success is to treat the material seriously with mature themes and stories. Kids can handle it. Transformers and GI Joe were hugely popular because the stories were cool and weren't dumbed down. Kids are young but they aren't stupid. Now WotC may not have corporate muscle to pull this off, but Hasbro certainly does. C'mon, Hasbro these are you profits too, what are you waiting for?

4) Lets see WotC heavily promote the fact that the Knights of Old Republic game for Xbox used the d20 rules system. Why the hell is the d20 logo not on the back of that game box? The game continues to be one of the best selling Xbox titles of all time and putting the d20 logo on the back and maybe slipping an ad for the SW RPG in the instruction manual is a no-brainer. Its good for everyone. Xbox people get exposed to d20. Lucas and WotC sell more SW books. d20 RPG players see their logo on the Xbox game and buy it. The consumer gets a great game for their Xbox. Everyone wins!

5) Why doesn't WotC encourage more companies to use their engine in the way that Bioware (makers of KOTOR and Neverwinter Nights) does? Create a special d20 license for software that lets game companies use the d20 ruleset and requires them to slap the d20 logo on the back of their game box. Sure, Infogrames has the rights to the "D&D" brand, but to the "d20" brand? I think not. Of course not every videogame player is going to go out and start playing the RPG, but it generates a lot more interest and brand awareness of the d20 logo.

6) Why do WotC stores not sell more Hasbro/WotC products? A WotC store that isn't even selling WotC products is ridiculous. Remember people, Pepsi Co. created Taco Bell and Pizza Hut for the sole purpose of selling Pepsi products. If WotC isn't a well known brand name, then call it the Hasbro store. Hasbro is a well respected and loved name and you can sell a zillion Hasbro toy products along with board games and RPGs. Preferably Hasbro boardgames and RPGs.

Any thoughts or anything to add to the list?

Dragonblade said:

Any thoughts or anything to add to the list?

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It all comes down to marketing metaparadigms exhibited by WotC and Hasbro as separate but intercorrelated corporate entities. The characteristic theme of the works of WotC is a capitalist totality. Habro, in contrast, holds that we have to choose between socialist realism and postcultural discourse.

This relates to D&D 3.0, in which a predominant concept is the concept of structural art. In a sense, this model of the neotextual paradigm of expression states that the media is capable of truth. WotC uses the term 'neotextual constructive theory' to denote the collapse of postsemioticist class.

If one examines Derridaist corporate planning of Hasbro, one is faced with a choice: either accept modern Marxism or conclude that culture is intrinsically responsible for sexism. Thus, if the neotextual paradigm of expression holds, the texts of D&D 3.0 are modernistic. The subject is interpolated into a neotextual desituationism that includes reality as a whole.

However, D&D 3.5 promotes the use of the neotextual paradigm of expression to modify and analyse sexual identity. WotC, contra Hasbro, uses the term 'Derridaist reading' to denote not, in fact, narrative, but prenarrative.

Thus, if neotextual construction holds, we have to choose between the neotextual paradigm of expression and the semioticist paradigm of reality. Until these issues are resolved, the current situation is likely to persist.

I don't have any inside info, this is just what it looks like to me.

On the surface, it seems that Hasbro doesn't really know what kind of opportunities it has with WotC. Either that or they're afraid of some backlash for associating Dungeons and Dragons with their more traditional brands (Transformers, GI Joe, etc.).

Of course, our point of view is a lot different from the people who run Hasbro. To us, WotC is the big dog in the game and has a huge amount of exploitable material at its fingertips. To the people who run Hasbro, WotC is a little group of people who add to their massive bottom line with stuff like Pokemon and Magic. It just doesn't feel as important to them as it does to us.

Out of all the things available to them, a GI Joe campaign would be a great license. Plenty of stuff you could put out for support materials. Well established setting and metaplot. All I can figure is that they're afraid of someone finally figuring out the same company owns GI Joe and D&D and starts stirring up trouble like in the 80's. It would be a huge boost for WotC, but may not justify to them the percieved risk to the GI Joe line.

Then again, I know there was a Transformers rpg many moons ago. Don't know who made it.

I'll just give a big "yep, I agree". The value of the IP that Hasbro/WotC is sitting on is absolutely stunning, and they just aren't doing anything with it.

But, it has always been my opinion that the marketing dept in WotC (and TSR before them) have always been a bunch of incompetent nincompoops.

For example, why don't they put D&D stats of the main characters and magic items in the backs of D&D-related novels? Non-gamers obviously read them, and the stats in the back of the different novels could entice people curious about the game to pick up the PHB. Heck, younger readers might want to grab the PHB and *play* their favorite heroes/villains from said novels (which would then open up all of the possibilities of D&D for them).

Incompetent nincompoops, I say.

Re: Re: The ineptitude of the WotC/Hasbro marketing machine

Mark Chance said:

It all comes down to marketing metaparadigms exhibited by WotC and Hasbro as separate but intercorrelated corporate entities. The characteristic theme of the works of WotC is a capitalist totality. Habro, in contrast, holds that we have to choose between socialist realism and postcultural discourse.

This relates to D&D 3.0, in which a predominant concept is the concept of structural art. In a sense, this model of the neotextual paradigm of expression states that the media is capable of truth. WotC uses the term 'neotextual constructive theory' to denote the collapse of postsemioticist class.

If one examines Derridaist corporate planning of Hasbro, one is faced with a choice: either accept modern Marxism or conclude that culture is intrinsically responsible for sexism. Thus, if the neotextual paradigm of expression holds, the texts of D&D 3.0 are modernistic. The subject is interpolated into a neotextual desituationism that includes reality as a whole.

However, D&D 3.5 promotes the use of the neotextual paradigm of expression to modify and analyse sexual identity. WotC, contra Hasbro, uses the term 'Derridaist reading' to denote not, in fact, narrative, but prenarrative.

Thus, if neotextual construction holds, we have to choose between the neotextual paradigm of expression and the semioticist paradigm of reality. Until these issues are resolved, the current situation is likely to persist.

Click to expand...

The scary part?

I think I see some logical truth in that, however well hidden or accidental it might have been...

Re: Re: The ineptitude of the WotC/Hasbro marketing machine

Mark Chance said:

It all comes down to marketing metaparadigms exhibited by WotC and Hasbro as separate but intercorrelated corporate entities. The characteristic theme of the works of WotC is a capitalist totality. Habro, in contrast, holds that we have to choose between socialist realism and postcultural discourse.

This relates to D&D 3.0, in which a predominant concept is the concept of structural art. In a sense, this model of the neotextual paradigm of expression states that the media is capable of truth. WotC uses the term 'neotextual constructive theory' to denote the collapse of postsemioticist class.

If one examines Derridaist corporate planning of Hasbro, one is faced with a choice: either accept modern Marxism or conclude that culture is intrinsically responsible for sexism. Thus, if the neotextual paradigm of expression holds, the texts of D&D 3.0 are modernistic. The subject is interpolated into a neotextual desituationism that includes reality as a whole.

However, D&D 3.5 promotes the use of the neotextual paradigm of expression to modify and analyse sexual identity. WotC, contra Hasbro, uses the term 'Derridaist reading' to denote not, in fact, narrative, but prenarrative.

Thus, if neotextual construction holds, we have to choose between the neotextual paradigm of expression and the semioticist paradigm of reality. Until these issues are resolved, the current situation is likely to persist.

Click to expand...

You crack me up man!

arnwyn said:

I'll just give a big "yep, I agree". The value of the IP that Hasbro/WotC is sitting on is absolutely stunning, and they just aren't doing anything with it.

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Exactly! FR could be the next GI Joe or Transformers if it was a daily or weekly cartoon series. The product tie-ins alone are worth millions, not to mention putting the show into syndication, etc.

D20 Modern can run a mean game of GI Joe, and the Mecha Crusade rules in Polyhedron a while back could do as a serviceable start to Transformers, but I agree. By not putting out official d20 games on those properties, WotC/Hasbro is mising out.

Just from my experience cruising TF sites, I've seen tons of fan attempts at TF roleplaying games. One system I saw used the Tech Spec numbers from the toys' bios as a base. I'm sure there'd be PLENTY of TF fans who'd snatch up an official TF RPG.

arnwyn said:

For example, why don't they put D&D stats of the main characters and magic items in the backs of D&D-related novels? Non-gamers obviously read them, and the stats in the back of the different novels could entice people curious about the game to pick up the PHB. Heck, younger readers might want to grab the PHB and *play* their favorite heroes/villains from said novels (which would then open up all of the possibilities of D&D for them).

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Probably because doing could provide un-necessary restrictions on the Authors when writing fiction. Not every major character in a Novel is likely to translate well into a combination of character classes and levels. Also, by not putting levels and classes on their characters, they can get away with a given characterbeing credibly threatened by an Orc with a Dagger.

Despite using the same source material, there is a substantial difference between writing good game material and writing a good story.

END COMMUNICATION

Re: Re: The ineptitude of the WotC/Hasbro marketing machine

Mark Chance said:

...to denote the collapse of postsemioticist class.

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They nerfed the postsemioticist class? Man, that was the only decent alternative to wizards.