D&D 5E No good deed goes unpunished

S

Sunseeker

Guest
See Stephen King’s Needful Things.

One of my favorite movies.

...And then there's Edran....
I honestly question how much any consequences are going to impact this person. He's been killed multiple times, the party just brings him back, no consequences there. It sounds like he's done a million other things for which there should be consequences, but he clearly hasn't suffered much if he is continuing to behave this way. If you've gone through 11 levels with little to no personality change from these events, I highly doubt there's anything that's going to get to him.
 

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cthulhu42

Explorer
One of my favorite movies.


I honestly question how much any consequences are going to impact this person. He's been killed multiple times, the party just brings him back, no consequences there. It sounds like he's done a million other things for which there should be consequences, but he clearly hasn't suffered much if he is continuing to behave this way. If you've gone through 11 levels with little to no personality change from these events, I highly doubt there's anything that's going to get to him.

You'd have to know the player. If it were almost anyone else I'd agree with you, but I've been gaming with him for a very long time (20 years, I think) and he has helmed some of the most complex characters I've ever seen. I truly believe he has an overall method to his madness.

The thing is, he generally plays one of two character types: The Stick In The Butt Paladin/Cleric, or the absolutely bonkers and chaotic Rogue/Arcane caster. The first of those is a breeze to DM because you can always know with near certainty what he'll do in any given situation. The second is a nightmare because you absolutely NEVER know what he'll do. It's a giant pain in the butt, and there have been many frustrating moments with his characters.

But this time I've decided to embrace his chaos and see where it leads instead of trying to fight him into behaving. We have an understanding that he can pretty much try anything, but the dice are going to fall as they may, and if he gets himself killed, so be it. And so far it's led to several very interesting plot points, and there certainly have been consequences. He's caught the attention of at least one god that has withdrawn his trusty lifeline, so I think Edran is beginning to see his lives run out. We've begun to see some very subtle changes in his attitude of late

Anyway, I'll spare you the details. Suffice to say, he's a great friend and a valued player who challenges me to grow as a DM, and so far it hasn't derailed the campaign too much.
 

cthulhu42

Explorer
Yes. And you’re right that such murders are rare, but murder is rare in general. But historically speaking, murder is rarer now than in past ages.


The how and why will always be very situationally dependent, though.

In a community such as you describe, the killing could occur because a wandering miscreant- a true murderhobo- saw the gold and took it by force, little realizing such wealth was all around him as he makes his getaway.

Or perhaps someone in the community incurred a debt the last time he went to sell his wares at the county market, and no one knows about it. But it is nearly due, and he hasn’t done so well lately. Desperation sets in...

A farmer’s well runs dry and he needs money to dig a new one- more than he expected, too, since his own tools have fallen into disrepair with lack of use, or the new spot to dig is in difficult, rocky terrain.

Yes! All of this and more!

What about the miller who thinks HE should be mayor of the village? Maybe he's too cowardly to take action on his own, but his wife henpecks him that he ought to be the one in charge of the gold. Maybe the combination of her nagging and his greed will finally push him to murder most foul!

Maybe the father of the boy killed by the giants is enraged that his neighbor would claim the boy was a fool who challenged a giant with a pitchfork and got what he deserved, and no way should his death mean an extra share. Words lead to fists and fists lead to a rock upside the skull. Now there's been a killing and the village is divided! Sometimes violently so!

Etc.

There's all sorts of room for intrigue among that many people, no matter how close they are. And the fact that they're related? Pffft! Family is the worst! Lol!
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Yep! First recorded in Western traditions? Cain & Abel. Even modern stats bear it out: you’re more likely to be murdered by a friend or acquaintance than by a stranger.
 

Harzel

Adventurer
Well, I guess I would say I lack enthusiasm for inventing negative consequences at this point for the PCs actions. The reason is the post hoc nature of it. IMO, for the consequences of a PC decision to be interesting, it needs to be an (at least somewhat) informed decision. If a PC has no clue that a particular decision might lead to negative consequences, I really don't think he is going to feel responsible.* If the PCs had left the villagers with a dangerous magic item without sufficient instruction, or an item that seemed beneficial but also showed signs of being cursed, or some unique treasure with ownership markings, or they had ignored clues that there were actually more hill giants than the ones that they just happened to find at home, well those are some things for which they could bear some culpability. Maybe if it had been an order of magnitude or two more coin, word would certainly have gotten out about that.

As things are, I might, despite the time lapse, bring the PCs back to experience the dilemma of the town deciding what to do with the gold rather than moving ahead right away to the outcome. That way, they get to see that there is a problem and hear about tradeoffs and decide what, if anything, to do about it. And they will bear some responsibility.

The scenarios about someone absconding with the loot either through fraud or theft are ok plot hooks, but I wouldn't view those as meaningful 'consequences' of the PCs' generosity.

It's late; maybe I'll have more ideas tomorrow.

* A different standard than I might have in RL, but I think the PCs (via the players) have much poorer access to their fictional world than we have to ours in RL.
 

Derren

Hero
As a large influx of gold is entirely useless for such a small village, after all what would they buy with it? It is debated what to do with the gold and finally a trusted villager is send to the city to buy the things which were agreed upon. Too bad, the trust was misplaced and he rides off with all the money to start a new live. Will he be successful? Will he turn to banditry once the money runs out? Who knows?

Or if you want it a bit more violent: When the next small scale merchant which runs the loop around several villages selling pots and stuff like that notices their new wealth as the village wants to basically buy his entire stock, he and his guards (brother and two cousins) kill a few villagers and steal the money to start a better live elsewhere.

But the idea of the lord of the village is turning it upside down for hidden wealth to tax is good too.

Personally I dislike fairy tale worlds where every good deed has good consequences and everyone lives happy ever after once the PCs passed through the area. Thats both boring and unrealistic.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
Yes. And you’re right that such murders are rare, but murder is rare in general. But historically speaking, murder is rarer now than in past ages.


The how and why will always be very situationally dependent, though.

In a community such as you describe, the killing could occur because a wandering miscreant- a true murderhobo- saw the gold and took it by force, little realizing such wealth was all around him as he makes his getaway.

Or perhaps someone in the community incurred a debt the last time he went to sell his wares at the county market, and no one knows about it. But it is nearly due, and he hasn’t done so well lately. Desperation sets in...

A farmer’s well runs dry and he needs money to dig a new one- more than he expected, too, since his own tools have fallen into disrepair with lack of use, or the new spot to dig is in difficult, rocky terrain.

I agree regarding the wandering murderhobo, but the rest seems a stretch to me.

People in such small communities are inclined to help each other out. It isn't pure benevolence either, but rather enlightened self interest. In an isolated town of 70, everyone serves an important role to everyone else's well being. If the thieves guild chops off Bob Blacksmith's hand for failing to pay his debts, that injury will not only cripple Bob but the entire community. It's not like they can hop on Craigslist and hire a new blacksmith. If they're lucky, Bob's less experienced apprentice knows enough to take over the business. If not, they're left bereft of a blacksmith for an indefinite period of time.

I see it being far more likely that Bob would go to the community, and after much grousing they'd find a way to help him. Granted, he wouldn't truly be off the hook in all likelihood. He'd most likely be basically an indentured servant for the town until he worked off his debt to them.

That could be an interesting adventure though. The townsfolk have gathered the coin to pay the debt, but they're worried about transporting it to the city. They ask the player characters to deliver the payment in their stead.

This creates an interesting opportunity for foreseeable consequences. Many players will choose to fight the guild rather than letting them exploit honest townsfolk. But that could well have negative consequences for the town, if the PCs fail to finish the guild off. ( This is also an opportunity to telegraph that threat by literally having the thieves make threats.)

Personally I dislike fairy tale worlds where every good deed has good consequences and everyone lives happy ever after once the PCs passed through the area. Thats both boring and unrealistic.

Sure, but the converse is also boring and unrealistic.

To have an interesting and realistic world, you need to mix together the good, the bad, and the neutral.
 


Fanaelialae

Legend
And I do not see that the DM is planning to do this every time instead of just this single instance (aka, creating a mix).

Sure, but were you suggesting that the OP is running a fairy tale world where nothing bad ever happens? You weren't speaking about just the OP and neither was I.

it's not just about doing this or that every time. In the real world, things are rarely entirely good or bad.

It's much more likely that some good and some bad comes out of anything significant (in varying proportions of course).
 

Uchawi

First Post
The local monarchy, thieves guild, merchant guild, etc. catching wind of it demands the proper tithe, or just takes it. I imagine it is similar to lord of the rings when the hobbits return to the shire and find it has met some hard times. It is a nice touch to the scope and impact of global and local events, but as a player, I would be more interested in finding out why giants attacked.

Otherwise, the gold tends to end up in the hands with those with power, either by force, coercion, or taxes.
 

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