D&D 5E Let's make PCs more powerful

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Sword of Spirit

Legend

• Nov 22, 2017

• #1

One thing that always baffles me is when I see house rules ideas pop up regularly that essentially just make PCs more powerful.

The problem with this is that 5e is already on easy mode.

...these two things do not work well together.

 

Last edited: Nov 22, 2017

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Shiroiken

Legend

• Nov 22, 2017

• #2

Well, some players (and DMs) like everything to be EPIC. I refer to this as Dragonball Z syndrome, and the best example of this was a guy who would rather have +100 to hit against AC: 110 than +0 against AC: 10, even though the math is exactly the same. He says it just feels more awesome. I suspect DMs that upscale the PCs also upscale the challenges, overall balancing things out.

 

ClaytonCross

Kinder reader Inflection wanted

• Nov 22, 2017

• #3

Sword of Spirit said:

One thing that always baffles me is when I see house rules ideas pop up regularly that essentially just make PCs more powerful.

The problem with this is that 5e is already on easy mode.

...these two things do not work well together.

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As Shiroiken pointed out as long GMs are balancing to players the players power levels don't matter. It only becomes and issue when to players are "Alpha Gaming" against each other and you have to deal with the drama between the players instead of the characters in the game or if the GM ignores players builds and gets annoyed when his "challenges" aren't challenges. The easy fix it for the GM to take a look at the players or raise the bar incrementally to find the line where it gets hard, but that does put all the work on the GM. I mean it kind of was anyway in my opinion but if the expectation of the GM was that his design was balanced its not surprising for the GM to get upset if he doesn't like adapting to the players and instead wants the players to lower their builds to struggle in his world, because the perception is the payers are power gaming and its a player issue not a GM adaptability issue. Also, there is a chance the GM counters too high and makes everything deadly or impossible to kill.

... So expect posts from both sides. (And yes I tend to hold it to the GM because GM is running the game and I view it as part of GM's job. GMs that don't generally play will tend to go the other way. Not saying I am an authority on the subject just my opinion view as it stands now.)

 

Last edited: Nov 22, 2017

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

• Nov 22, 2017

• #4

IMO, part of the reason 5e is considered easy mode is because the resource balance is around 6-8 challenging encounters per day, and no one runs that many.

Making the bigger combats don't help - if you can 3 times a day rage for 1 minute, with 6 encounters that's half the time, with 3 hard encounters it's all the time since they are still over. Same thing for a lot fo buffs. More powerful opponents means landing a debuff (easy if you pay attention to bad saves) has more effect More opponents means your area effect is worth more.

If you want to take 5e off "easy mode", you either need to have the threat of 6-8 combats per day, every single adventuring day, or you need to adjust the resource management.

 

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CatholicFan

First Post

• Nov 22, 2017

• #5

I play in a 5e campaign, but I don't think I'd ever run one. I only stay involved because of the people I play with; I actually think the game is ridiculously under-challenging. Some of it is my GM, who is still a relatively new one, but some of it is baked into the game. The 5e "easy mode" is why I run a 0e for my own game. I won't begrudge people that want to play that way, but it's definitely not for me.

 

Immoralkickass

Adventurer

• Nov 22, 2017

• #6

One thing that baffles me is that people say 5e is easy mode when the DM can always throw more beholders, more dragons, more mind flayers and more Vecnas to make stuff harder for them. And on top of that, DM can still ban resurrection magic, ban feats, ban multiclassing, ban spell casting, and ban magic weapons.

I dare those people to play at my table.

 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

• Nov 22, 2017

• #7

All this is too complicated. Just give them more RAM.

 

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CatholicFan

First Post

• Nov 22, 2017

• #8

Immoralkickass said:

One thing that baffles me is that people say 5e is easy mode when the DM can always throw more beholders, more dragons, more mind flayers and more Vecnas to make stuff harder for them. And on top of that, DM can still ban resurrection magic, ban feats, ban multiclassing, ban spell casting, and ban magic weapons.

I dare those people to play at my table.

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Let me put this differently. I don't think more monsters or more hit points is the answer. Player options to deal with monsters have grown exponentially, but I'm not sure that the monsters have evolved in as compelling of a way. Compound that with 3-6 players each having these expanded options, and it becomes a pretty stark battle of creativity. Does that make sense? The game has disproportionately improved PC's without giving similar thought to monsters.

Also, while I agree that limiting stuff as you suggest works, there are just gobs of options in 5e. At some point, doesn't it make sense to just go back to an older edition?

 

ClaytonCross

Kinder reader Inflection wanted

• Nov 22, 2017

• #9

CatholicFan said:

Let me put this differently. I don't think more monsters or more hit points is the answer. Player options to deal with monsters have grown exponentially, but I'm not sure that the monsters have evolved in as compelling of a way. Compound that with 3-6 players each having these expanded options, and it becomes a pretty stark battle of creativity. Does that make sense? The game has disproportionately improved PC's without giving similar thought to monsters.

Also, while I agree that limiting stuff as you suggest works, there are just gobs of options in 5e. At some point, doesn't it make sense to just go back to an older edition?

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So... you never create an NPC using the same character rules and send it against the group? That is within the game rules and opens up all the options they use against monsters to use against players. Sure you have stats for dire wolf but it could be an Evil rangers animal companion you don't always a have to use pre-generated creatures they are simple design for quick reference "on the fly" encounters not a lack of evolution. If they made them as complicated as player character it would make it hard on the GM to know them all. I just saying there is nothing the players can do that can't be given by a GM to NPC creatures (including NPC monsters) to make fights more challenging or interest.

 

Sacrosanct

Legend

• Nov 22, 2017

• #10

In my observations, when I hear people talk about easy mode, it’s usually also tied to player agency overriding DM agency. I’m not saying player agency is bad (every table should play in the style they find fun). Only that if players dictate the story, dictate when and how often they always get to rest, etc, then some of the challenge is eliminated. There are many times where I’ve seen the attitude that if any PC actually dies for whatever reason, then it’s because the DM is unfair and horrible. And ive seen often the attitude from DMs that they will even cheat to avoid killing a PC if that’s how the die falls because no one wants their PC to die. Well, if you remove the risk and threats, of course it’s gonna feel like easy mode. Probably the oddest thing I’ve seen in the past is someone who touts how good of an optimizer they are, but then play the monsters when they are the DM extremely incompetent. And then complain how the game is too easy. Shrug.

Ultimately, it’s only easy mode if the DM allows it. We as DMs have a plethora of tools at our disposal to keep it from feeling like easy mode if that is in fact a problem.