D&D 5E Stalker0's Xanathar Spell Ratings

Stalker0

Legend
Now that I have gotten my copy of Xanathar's, going to give initial spell ratings based on my impression.

I use a very simple scale:

3 - Below the curve. There are current spells that are better, this spell is somewhat a waste of space.
2 - Solid. Fits in with the club just fine.
1 - A new top tier for its level. This is a spell that will make a lot a whole lot of people's lists. Could mean its OP, or could mean previous spells at that level just weren't cutting the mustard.

Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting - 3
A fireball wannabee. Does 54 necro vs 42 fire damage (8th level fireball), so about 29% more damage. Slightly shorter radius. Its close, but just not enough power for that coveted 8th level slot.

Absorb Elements - 1
Flexible energy resistance is good. Getting it as a reaction is great. Getting all of this for a 1st level spell is awesome! Especially towards the mid level, this should make a lot of casters list...its a great defensive spell to have in a pinch. And that is not even starter with the offensive benefits. I think this is also a great spell to pick up with Magic Initiate.

Aganazzar's Scorcher - 3
This one seemed decent until I look at dragon's breath. I think that one just takes the cake. Even without that one burning hands can give you almost as much bang for the buck at a level less.

Beast Bond - 2
A fun niche, though the concentration element starts to hurt it later on.

Bones of the Earth - 2 (debating)
This is one I need to see in play to know. Its an odd spell, has some potential, but also seems a bit niche.

Catapult - 3
Comparing to magic missile. Unless your dex DC has an 75% or higher chance, you do less damage. If you position it right, you can get a little bit more range than Magic Missile but its situational and requires an object. This spell really doesn't bring anything to the table.

Catnap - 1,2,3 (very campaign dependent)
While all spells are somewhat campaign dependent, this one is more so. If resting is sparse, and the difference between 1 hour and 10 minutes is a critical part of the game, could be an incredibly powerful spell. In other games, its a waste of space.

Cause Fear - 3
Compared to spells like sleep, its not a great crippler at low levels. There are better spells to do effects, or just apply damage.

Ceremony - 2
Its a plot spell. If you like these kind of spells, its seems fine.

Chaos Bolt - 2
Similar in stats to Catapult, but has a crit chance and a 12.5% chance to hit another enemy. I actually really like the mechanics of how things are selected with this spell, its an elegant approach. Balance wise, this one just about breaks even with magic missile around a 70% hit chance, which is a bit more reasonable. Its got enough to keep it in the club.

Charm Monster - 2
Its just fine.

Control Flames - 3
I feel like most DMs would allow many of these effects with prestidigitation or druidcraft. It doesn't give enough for it to stand on its own.

Control Winds - 3
Very weak for its level, and just too niche.

Create Bonfire - 3
Already good damaging cantrips, this one really doesn't add anything to the table.

Create Homunculus - N/A
Have to see it in play.

Crown of Stars - 1
I think this one demonstrates what a 7th level damage spell should look like. It does up to 28d12 damage, and because of the long duration and no concentration, you can cast it before going into a battle, in which it gives you a nice damage buff. Its a very nice spell.

Dance Macabre - N/A
I haven't seen undead summons in 5e to comment on this. The bonus to attack and damage helps, but considering its concentration and a bonus action each round to do...seems on the weak side.

Dawn - 3
Its basically an upgraded moonbeam. The damage is actually a little weaker than moonbeam at that level, so normally I would say this isn't worth it. However, the difference here is that the radius is so incredibly bigger than moonbeam that is closes the gap.

But the nail in the coffin is that the damage only works if you end your turn there, where moonbeam works if you start your turn. That difference makes dawn much harder to use than moonbeam.

Dragon's Breath - 2
Really nice damage spell for this level. Even if you choose not to maintain concentration, its basically a burning hands where you can change up the energy type...which is solid. But the fact that you can give it to someone on the front lines so you don't have to worry as much about concentration is what keeps this one looking good.

Druid Grove - N/A

Dust Devil - 3
The fact that you have to end your turn near it to take the pain is already a problem. It just doesn't have enough to warrant it over something like dragon's breath.

Earthbind - 1
For parties that are expecting flying creatures, this one can be a godsend. A nice solid effect, and the range is what seals it as a very nice spell.

Earth Tremor - 2

Elemental Bane - 3
At first glance, this one looks really nice. However, when you consider it has to stand up to debuffs like polymorph or banishment its pretty mediocre.

Enemies Abound - 2
I gave this one a 2, but honestly I don't like the spell. It feels too easy for the target to game to lose a lot of value. I gave it a 2, but I could see it as a 3.

Enervation - 2 (leaning to a 3)
My jury is still a bit out on this one. We have the witchbolt effect, but with a longer range and more damage. However, most important...you heal from the damage. So a distance vampiric touch. Damage wise, it takes 3 rounds before it beats fireball damage. 3 rounds is the absolute max to me a DOT should be considered, 5e combats are short. And as a single target effect, fireball "blows" it out of the water. Is the healing enough to warrant the high level? I don't know.

Erupting Earth - 2
Another spell trying to pass the fireball test. Its damage and radius are lower than fireball. However, the difficult terrain is one of those effects that can have no impact...or can be quite strong, as there is no save for that effect. I think its more niche than fireball, but has enough that a smart player can do well with it.

Far Step - 2
At 1 level higher than dimension door, we get a short range but tactically superior teleport. However, you can't take another person, which is big weakness compared to d door. Seems like a good balance, honestly it might stand to be a bit stronger at that level but I think a lot of players will have tons of fun with it.

Find Greater Steed - N/A

Flame Arrows - 2
Seems like a solid spell to eek out a lot of extra damage with 1 spell slot, at the cost of concentration. As this is a druid/ranger spell, it doesn't have to pass the fireball threshold, so for those classes I think its good enough.

Frostbite - 2

Guardian of Nature - 2
This is a very nice druid spell, especially since you can stack it on wildshape.

Gust - 3
Again, something a lot of DMs would allow with prestigation/druidcraft.

Healing Spirit - 1
Already noted in other threads. The out of combat healing power completely outclasses other spells.
.
Holy Weapon - 3
As cool as this looks, there are a lot of nice spells that vie for the paladin's concentration slot, and this one just doesn't seem all that amazing.

Ice Knife - 2
It does enough upfront damage to be in the ballpark with magic missile, and the burst damage does enough that it looks decent.

Illusionary Dragon - 2
This is an 8th level spell that seems to have some decent kick. The first key, as long as the enemy has line of sight it gets no followup saves on fear. That should not be underestimated. The breath is ok damage, but as an Int save there are many creatures that won't have a good chance to save against it. Like many illusion spells, it comes down to the DM. If the DM rules that monsters attack the dragon and don't figure out the illusion than it can also tank a lot of pain for the party.

Immolation - 3
Fails my fireball threshold. The damage takes too long to kick in for a single target spell that costs concentration. Also the targets you are likely going to want to use it on generally have the best saves, so getting them to fail multiple times is unlikely.

Infernal Calling - 3
As cool as this spell looks, that's a lot of hoops to go through for a summon. Take away the concentration and I'm board, but its not all that great.

Infestation - 3
With all of the damaging cantrips out there, this one just doesn't bring anything to the table. If the movement provoked OAs, we are talking. But otherwise, there are better cantrips.

Investiture of Flame - 2
Energy Immunity is always sexy, and the secondaries on this one are pretty good too. Also with the long duration you can really save on the spell slots if you want to just use the flame spray.

Investiture of Ice - 2
Its good in the same way the flame version is good.

Investiture of Stone - 2
While not packing the offense of some investiture spells, you get a solid resistance and the earth move can be very powerful if used well.

Investiture of Wind - 2
Getting it for the fly of 60. The other stuff is nice too.

Invulnerability - 2
I give WOTC kudos for recognizing what a 9th level spell needs to look like to contend with Wish. You'll give this spell a double take when you first see it. But then...realizing its a 9th level spell, you realize its just a solid spell in the book.

Life Transference - 2
This one is a debate for me. It heals 4d8 * 2 damage (not the same as 8d8, much more swingy). Compare that to 3d8+5 you expect from cure wounds, so its effectively double the value but at the cost of getting hurt yourself. Ultimately I think it gives enough love that players will like it and its worth the risk.

Maddening Darkness - 2
The best part about this spell is that the radius is very high. The damage is just ok, but with the large radius its easy to get creatures in the dark for at least 2 rounds. And then the darkness can be a useful add on.

Maelstorm - 2
Another fireball wannabee. This one has a good radius, and with the difficult terrain can be a good control spell. Further, this can help bunch up targets for lower radius spells (like fireball!).

Magic Stone - 2
This is a good damage cantrip. While it doesn't scale like some others, its strong at the early levels. Also, it lets other party members get in on the fun.

Mass Polymorph - 2
While the spell has some party buff potential, its really about taking the entire other side of the fight and shutting down completely. Its a tremendously powerful spell, as a 9th level spell should be.

Maximillian's Earthen Grasp - 3
A fantasy staple spell. Its not that bad but it just doesn't offer as much as some of the other 2nd level spells already provided.

Melf's Minute Meteors - 2
If you can't beat Fireball, join it. This spell does enough overall damage to pass the fireball test. But what makes it great is, the long duration allows it to be cast before battle, so you can chuck a fireball and then send in some meteor pain. This spell allows the midlevel evoker to evoke even harder!

Mental Prison - 2
A lot of debate on this one in the forum. My first glance had it as "very strong". But the more I've thought about it, the more I think its just good. Again, when you consider the fireball test it does about 2.5 the damage of an equivalent fireball. Meaning a fireball hitting 3 targets will do more damage in general. And that is of course assuming the secondary effect goes off....which I do think will occur most of the time. When you consider all of the spells that can just ruin a single monster's day, 15d10 damage doesn't actually seem all that bad.

Mighty Fortress - 2
This is more of a plot spell. Its a cool effect, but as someone noted the walls aren't actually all that thick, so its not the best fortress. Others have noted it can be an economy wrecker...but honestly once your in the 8th level spell category there are a lot of things that can wreck the world.

Mind Spike - 2
This one is a very niche spell, but interesting for a tracker type. My one peeve with this spell...I wish I could make it do 0 damage if I wanted to. Aka apply a "tracking device" to my target.

Mold Earth - 3
Once again, most of this falls in the realm of prestigidation.

Negative Energy Flood - 3
Aweful damage. The zombie isn't even under your command. Just worthless.

Power Word Pain - 3
If a creature is already lower than 100 hitpoints, its usually just easier to kill them. Further, the debuff itsn't that amazing compared to other debuffs. And they get a save every round.

Primal Savagry - 2
Decent enough druid cantrip

Primordial Ward - 2
This is a really good protection spell, but its self only, and it has a short duration. So its worth a look, but for all its power its not that amazing.

Psychic Scream - 2
I'm really liking the power of the new 9th level spells. The fact this one uses an int save just really drives him its power.

Pyrotechnics - 3
Its not that "flashy", and its limited by a source of fire.

Scatter - 2
I think there is a lot of potential for some really slick moves with this spell. This is a great boss spell to use in his lair. You can do everything from place each party member on their own trap, to placing them all next to each other while your readied minions bombard them with fireballs.

Shadow Blade - 3
The base blade isn't any better than a rapier with dex bonus to damage. The advantage in darkness only works if you aren't taking penalties for the same darkness. Further, you are meleeing with a concentration spell, which is always a concern.

Shadow of Moil - N/A
Have to think on this one. How strong the heavy obscurement is the question.

Shape Water - 3
Another cantrip that fails the druidcraf/prestigidation test.

Sickening Radiance - 2
This ones a toughy for me. Same damage as moonbeam, much better radius, but can't be moved. The exhaustion looks good until you realize it only lasts with the spell, so its really not that great.

Skill Empowerment - 3
I personally think there are way too many ways to get expertise now. That said, if you compare this to Enhance Ability at 2nd level this spell seems rather weak.

Skywrite - 2
A fun little spell.

Snare - 2, 3 for its "intended role".
As the spell works, its an ok little trap. If you are going for the idea of setting snares to trap animals (aka what a ranger would do), its way too easy to get out of unless the ranger is there watching....which is not the point of setting snares.

Shillog's Snowball Swarm - 3

I think shatter is overall a better spell.

Soul Cage - 2
This is a very cool spell, very solid for its level.

Steel Wind Strike - 2
Its doesn't have the power of fireball, but its got a better damage type, much more precision (no friendly fire), and the teleport can be a nice effect....although most of the time you wouldn't want to teleport into melee with a creature if your casting this. It has enough.

Storm Sphere - 3
Not enough damage to meet the fireball threshold, and the radius isn't large enough to let the difficult terrain really kick in.

Summon Greater Demon - 2
I like this spell. Its a summon that doesn't consume your actions. Even if you lose control, if you place it in the middle of a brawl its unlikely to get at you. The material component is a neat touch (and I suspect many players will never even recognize that its not just a normal material component). Finally, the summon can be quite potent at the mid levels when magical attacks aren't always assumed...the shadow demon for example has some very good resistances.

Summon Lesser Demons - 2
Same reasons I like Greater Demon summoning.

Synaptic Static - 2
This one is a solid spell to me. For a little less damage, you use an Int save....which is generally must harder to pass. Further, the penalty for failure is a decent debuff.

Temple of the Gods - ?
This is a weird spell. At first it looks amazing, like every order would have these everywhere. But then.... single disintegrate spell can take it out, even after its made permanent. I don't know how I feel about it.

Tenser's Transformation - 3
Any concentration spell that throws you into melee is questionable, though you do get con proficiency. Your AC is going to be lacking because of the time it takes to don the armor (you can't cast the spell in unproficient armor). The offense is decent, but for a 6th level spell its not amazing. And the nail on the coffin is the exhaustion at the end.

Thunderclap - 2
Its an area cantrip with a very nice range.

Thunderstep - 1
Just when you thought misty step was good. This spell teleports farther, does damage, and most importantly...lets you bring a friend. What a spell!

Tidal Wave - 3
Fails my fireball threshold. If the area was a bit bigger maybe, but at half the damage and smaller radius, the proning just isn't good enough.

Tiny Servant - 1

Already a lot of threads on why this is coolest new spell. Should make any wizard's list.

Toll the Dead - 1
Seems like the new go to cantrip for wizards wishing they had Warlock Eldritch blast.

Transmute Rock - 1
This spell has potential. Its got a big radius, its easy to find a place to cast. Its got a wicked combo in that its 4 foot of movement to move 1 feet, and you must make a save every round you stay in the mud or become restrained. And since it takes a lot of movement to get out of the mud, you are likely going to be making restrained saving throws. The mud to rock version is nice too and offers some flexibility. Won't outstanding question...if you use the mud on the ceiling, do you get the damage AND all of the normal mud effects? If so...that is amazing!

This spell may be a hidden gem for creative players.

Vitriolic Sphere - 3
Just doesn't quite make the fireball threshold for me. If the secondary damage was also halfed instead of lost, than it would be solid.

Wall of Light - 3

Its hard for any wall spell to compete with Wall of Force. I like this spell, its got some great potential. But its not wall of force.

Wall of Sand - 2
This is a sneakily good spell. Not only does it severely slow down creatures, but it automatically blinds them (no save). There is a lot of good potential here.

Wall of Water - 3
Just doesn't do enough to warrant the spell level.

Warding Wind - 2
Its no 3e protection from arrows, but the cheapest equivalent. It provides a nice little array of defensive benefits, the biggest one being the ranged protection. My only issue is its not kind to your partymembers.

Watery Sphere - 2
This has both a restraining and a proning element, so some potential here.

Whirlwind - N/A
A spell I will have to see in action. The auto pickup looks nice (it mentions medium creatures or smaller, but then gives rules for large creatures so an inconsistency there). The damage is nothing to write home about, but the hurling effect can be nice. Just not sure right now, it is a 7th level spell.

Word of Radiance - 3
Only good if you are surrounded by enemies. You should not be using a cantrip if you are surrounded by enemies.

Wrath of Nature - 2
Compared to some of the other 5th level controlling spells, its looking pale in comparison. However, it looks like the right amount of controller for a druid spell.

Zephyr Strike - 1
For certain melee builds this one is great. Advantage on the attack, more damage, and increased speed all in 1 package. Very nice.
 
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Li Shenron

Legend
Just a note... I think the whole idea of "passing the Fireball test" has a problem: Mearls or Crawford have mentioned that Fireball is purposefully better than it should be for its level, because they wanted the possibly most iconic D&D spell to be also the best.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Just a note... I think the whole idea of "passing the Fireball test" has a problem: Mearls or Crawford have mentioned that Fireball is purposefully better than it should be for its level, because they wanted the possibly most iconic D&D spell to be also the best.

That only applies for pure damage spells that are level 3 or below. Anything above that level should be, well, better.

My nitpick is going to be Word of Radiance. For some reason, people are keen on giving this spell the "poo-poo" rating. I don't get it, it's for Clerics, have you seen their cantrip list? What else are you chomping at the bit for?
 

Caliburn101

Explorer
[PF][/PF]
Just a note... I think the whole idea of "passing the Fireball test" has a problem: Mearls or Crawford have mentioned that Fireball is purposefully better than it should be for its level, because they wanted the possibly most iconic D&D spell to be also the best.

Which is, frankly, a very foolish decision.

They wanted an iconic spell to be 'coolaid' and all it cost them was making every other damaging spell (except a very few examples) dross by comparison.

They should have thought about that decision a little longer n'est pas..?
 

I don't agree with the ratings for most of the elemental-control cantrips. I'm guessing that may be more a matter of DM fiat in your particular game than their actual capabilities however.
If your DM is allowing you to move or alter large amounts of material as part of prestidigitation, then having a separate cantrip to do part of that probably isn't worth it. However I think many DMs wouldn't allow that level of power from the prestidigitation cantrip.
Based on what they actually do, I would rate Mold Earth and perhaps Control Water as good, and Control Fire as perhaps average.

Just a note... I think the whole idea of "passing the Fireball test" has a problem: Mearls or Crawford have mentioned that Fireball is purposefully better than it should be for its level, because they wanted the possibly most iconic D&D spell to be also the best.
Depends on how you're evaluating them I think. Usefulness or design.

If you're looking at deciding whether to pick that spell when you level up, or are preparing spells in the morning, then they are directly competing with Fireball for spell slots etc. - And thus comparing them against that standard is fair.

If you're evaluating the design of the spell, (which to be fair, this guide does seem to be,) then measuring against a spell that was explicitly designed to be above the curve is a bit of a false comparison.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Just a note... I think the whole idea of "passing the Fireball test" has a problem: Mearls or Crawford have mentioned that Fireball is purposefully better than it should be for its level, because they wanted the possibly most iconic D&D spell to be also the best.
How does that change anything?

Any 3rd level damage spell still needs to "pass the fireball" test. If all of them fails, so be it. His ratings should certainly not advertise spells as great when everybody will still just pick Fireball.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
That only applies for pure damage spells that are level 3 or below. Anything above that level should be, well, better.
Well, better than a decent level 3 spell, at any rate.

The case can be made that Fireball is so good it could have been a level 4 spell. If so, then no, anything above Fireball should maybe be only about as good, but not easily better.

Just a thought.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
[PF][/PF]

Which is, frankly, a very foolish decision.

They wanted an iconic spell to be 'coolaid' and all it cost them was making every other damaging spell (except a very few examples) dross by comparison.

They should have thought about that decision a little longer n'est pas..?
Sorry but this is one of the deadest horses around you're starting to beat upon :)
 

Stalker0

Legend
To provide more context, I definitely consider fireball the baseline for 3rd level damage. This is the spell that player's use. While WOTC made a decision when the game first opened, they have also had plenty of time to review feedback on their spells when creating new ones.

As such, I generally rate the Xanathar spells more harshly, as WOTC should already have a lot of good insight into what makes a 5e spell work or not work at a given level. If fireball is stronger than other 3rd level PHB damage spells...well it is still the bar that other spells have to meet or beat in order to be considered good. Why would I want new damage spells that are worse than a spell I already have a book for?
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Now that I have gotten my copy of Xanathar's, going to give initial spell ratings based on my impression.
Thanks!

I use a very simple scale:
I approve of your scale.

Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting - 3
A fireball wannabee. Does 54 necro vs 42 fire damage (8th level fireball), so about 29% more damage. Slightly shorter radius. Its close, but just not enough power for that coveted 8th level slot.
I am aware they increased the damage from EEPC, but that just makes it worse. I would never reserve an 8th level slot for merely 29% more damage than I could get out of an upcast Fireball. This spell is a travesty, and the so-called tweak just adds insult to injury.

Your rating is spot on.

Crown of Stars - 1
I think this one demonstrates what a 7th level damage spell should look like. It does up to 28d12 damage, and because of the long duration and no concentration, you can cast it before going into a battle, in which it gives you a nice damage buff. Its a very nice spell.
Yeah.

I see all the Concentration spells and just ask myself - do we really need them, when there still is no way to maintain concentration on more than one spell. (The answer is no)

It just seems so tragic, the waste of space, seeing rating after rating go "...if it weren't for Concentration..." Sigh.

Dragon's Breath - 2
Really nice damage spell for this level. Even if you choose not to maintain concentration, its basically a burning hands where you can change up the energy type...which is solid. But the fact that you can give it to someone on the front lines so you don't have to worry as much about concentration is what keeps this one looking good.
I'm not sure I agree. About your reasoning, that is - your rating is probably fair.

If you evaluate this without the transfer ability, then what would your rating be? (Not too generous, I'd assume, seeing it would require the wizard to come uncomfortably close to the monsters, and yes, that'd be plural or you'd be wasting the spell potential)

Reason I'm asking is that using the dragon breath requires one's action. This means that after level 4 it's a waste to put this on a frontliner, simply because the spell's net worth is 3d6 minus two regular attacks. That makes the spell relatively niche (it would still have its uses if the monsters are resistant to physical attacks or if there are lots of puny critters).

To be a spell that actually increases your net damage output (and thus gain a 1 rating) it should work like grapple (replace an attack, not the whole action), use up the bonus attack, or at the very least, transfer Concentration away from you the caster.

So you see I'm not really contesting your rating. I just think your writeup is a teeny bit too positive... :)
 

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