D&D 2E A question on D&D 2e Backstab

Slit518 · Dec 27, 2017

In D&D 2e, a Thief's Backstab ability is followed by a multiplier.

But I wonder how this works.

Does it work like this?

Weapon damage roll + extra damage x number multiplier = result?
Ex: 1d6 (4) + 3 = 7 x 4 = 28

or does it work like this?

Weapon damage roll + weapon damage roll rolled a number of times equal to multiplier + extra damage = result?

1d6 (4) + 1d6 (3) + 1d6 (6) + 1d6 (5) + 1d6 (2) + 3 = 23

Tinker · Dec 28, 2017

Well I never! The official core rules changed within the lifespan of 2e.

In my 1989 original 2e PHB (with the mounted warriors on the cover), page 40, it says:

"The multiplier given in Table 30 applies to the amount of damage after modifiers for Strength but before weapon bonuses are added. The weapon's standard damage is added to the wielder's Strength bonus and then multiplied by the value given in Table 30. Then magical weapon bonuses are added."

Whereas in my 1995 printing (with the kick-in-the-door cover), page 57, it says:

"The multiplier given in Table 30 applies to the amount of damage before modifiers for Strength or weapon bonuses are added. The weapon's standard damage is multiplied by the value given in Table 30. Then Strength and magical weapon bonuses are added."

So your damage is either ((d6 plus Str bonus) times 4) plus magical weapon bonus OR (d6 times 4) plus bonuses.

I always rolled the die once and multiplied the result and the internet suggests this was normal. I never rolled the dice multiple times before 3e. BTW, in 3e (and I would think any time you roll multiple damage dice), you roll as many dice as the multiplier, not as many as one plus the multiplier as in your question.

Scott DeWar · Dec 28, 2017

I have played two ways:

base damage: 1d6

times multiplier

plus weapon damage

or as other dm's would do, your second choice.

It is all in how the particular dm wanted to interpret the ~~rule~~ guideline.

GreyLord · Jan 4, 2018

I've always run it with the (Damage + Modifier x Backstab)+ Magical bonus

So for a 16 STR Rogue, with a magical +1 Dagger that had a x3 backstab it would work
(1d4 [3] + 1) x 3 = 12
12 + 1 = 13 Damage.

Lanefan · Jan 8, 2018

Tinker said:
Well I never! The official core rules changed within the lifespan of 2e.

In my 1989 original 2e PHB (with the mounted warriors on the cover), page 40, it says:

"The multiplier given in Table 30 applies to the amount of damage after modifiers for Strength but before weapon bonuses are added. The weapon's standard damage is added to the wielder's Strength bonus and then multiplied by the value given in Table 30. Then magical weapon bonuses are added."

Whereas in my 1995 printing (with the kick-in-the-door cover), page 57, it says:

"The multiplier given in Table 30 applies to the amount of damage before modifiers for Strength or weapon bonuses are added. The weapon's standard damage is multiplied by the value given in Table 30. Then Strength and magical weapon bonuses are added."

So your damage is either ((d6 plus Str bonus) times 4) plus magical weapon bonus OR (d6 times 4) plus bonuses.

And in neither case are any other types of bonuses mentioned e.g. damage bonus given by spells such as Chant or Prayer, Ranger damage bonuses in the case of a Thief-Ranger multiclass backstriking a Giant-class creature, and so forth.

For simplicity in 1e we've always just added everything up and then multiplied the lot - yes this leads to gob-crazy numbers once in a while, but all that tells us is that the target is dead-dead-dead.

Lanefan

Flexor the Mighty! · Jan 8, 2018

Plus in 1e/2e you weren't backstabbing every round like later editions. So if it hit hard that wasn't such a big deal.

Man in the Funny Hat · Jan 9, 2018

Flexor the Mighty! said:
Plus in 1e/2e you weren't backstabbing every round like later editions. So if it hit hard that wasn't such a big deal.

Actually it made it a bigger deal; a thief getting in a REALLY good backstab is an even more significant moment.

Like everything in AD&D - run it how you like it. Doesn't even matter what the official rule is (if there even IS one). Rules are simply what you use while you're still making your own plans.

Flexor the Mighty! · Jan 9, 2018

Man in the Funny Hat said:
Actually it made it a bigger deal; a thief getting in a REALLY good backstab is an even more significant moment.

Like everything in AD&D - run it how you like it. Doesn't even matter what the official rule is (if there even IS one). Rules are simply what you use while you're still making your own plans.

Right, I mean from a game "balance" POV. An AD&D thief wasn't backstabbing/sneak attacking all the time so adding up all the damage then multiplying it wouldn't get out of hand which is how we did it I recall. It was their one big combat nova for a class more focused on the exploration pillar.

Scott DeWar · Jan 9, 2018

from the OSRIC:

Damage modifiers (such as those pertaining to strength or magic) are not multiplied from a backstab.

billd91 · Jan 10, 2018

Man in the Funny Hat said:
Actually it made it a bigger deal; a thief getting in a REALLY good backstab is an even more significant moment.

And, frankly, the thief needed those significant moments. On so many other levels, the AD&D thief was a weak class.

D&D 2E A question on D&D 2e Backstab

Slit518

Adventurer

Tinker

First Post

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure

GreyLord

Legend

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Flexor the Mighty!

18/100 Strength!

Man in the Funny Hat

Hero

Flexor the Mighty!

18/100 Strength!

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)

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