[PF2] My one wish, please please do away with traits

There is but one thing that made me stop playing pathfinder, it wasn't the mythic stuff, it wasn't the over the top late classes, it wasn't having tons of sourcebooks, it was one thing: traits. There is nothing I despise more than traits, there are tons of them, put on arbitrary categories, scattered through tons of books, each of them increasingly more specific than the one before it to the detriment of character concepts and all of it over so called benefits so niche and and so minor they never end up actually mattering.

So basically having them in game means I have to spend tons of time looking for the compulsory two, then having to settle with the least worst saddling my character with unwanted baggage and what for? for a measly pointless thing that never actually matters.

So here's hoping traits don't make it into the next edition. What do you think? Do you agree with me or do you think my distaste for them is unwarranted?

I initially liked traits as a way to tie your character into a specific setting or story but....
Now they are annoying, and I absolutely hate it when players discuss the "best" trait. They weren't supposed to be treated as an optimization tool! So yeah, ditching them would be a good move. And you're right about there being too many, too specific and not that useful for character design.

I never let people use them, so I'm indifferent. And that's a disallowance out of general volume, not any particular objection to their power.

Fundamentally I don't have a problem with them, but I'd prefer if they were more fluff and less crunch. Crunchy things should go in the "feat" category.

I wouldnt miss them

What are traits? It's been a while since I've read through my pathfinder pdfs for anything ither than subclass ideas for 5e.

cbwjm said:

What are traits? It's been a while since I've read through my pathfinder pdfs for anything ither than subclass ideas for 5e.

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Traits originally came up in one of the APs. You got one trait at that time, which tied your character into the adventure path, and gave you a little goodie. Later, 2 traits were added. Traits are like half a feat. They are supposed to give characters a hook into the campaign, a carrot to help ensure players are invested in the story. Unfortunately, some players just treat them as half feats, and they've become a bit nuisancey.

So far there is no notion of traits. And I guess traits might be changed into backgrounds and background/ancestry feats. Which would be actually a good thing because, right now, we rather play with an extra "fluff" feat and skip the whole trait business.

MoonSong said:

There is but one thing that made me stop playing pathfinder, it wasn't the mythic stuff, it wasn't the over the top late classes, it wasn't having tons of sourcebooks, it was one thing: traits.

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You stopped playing PF... over traits?

I’m unsure I understand what made them so difficult to pick for you? Just pick two, any two, doesn’t matter, ask the GM if you can reword the flavor text to fit your character, as to why they have that benefit, and done?

Is it the actual benefits given? Is it the flavor text? Just trying to understand?

In any case, you may be disappointed, because it sounds like it’s being worked into a “backgrounds” concept for 2E.

double post

Henry said:

You stopped playing PF... over traits?

I’m unsure I understand what made them so difficult to pick for you? Just pick two, any two, doesn’t matter, ask the GM if you can reword the flavor text to fit your character, as to why they have that benefit, and done?

Is it the actual benefits given? Is it the flavor text? Just trying to understand?

In any case, you may be disappointed, because it sounds like it’s being worked into a “backgrounds” concept for 2E.

Click to expand...

I really don't get what are they really for, they are a strange mixture of minifeats and claims of fictional space and the result just pulls me on opposite ways. Sometimes I find a trait with a fictional space I really really like, for example princess, princess is a nice if a little too specific fictional space, then I notice the mechanic... a +1 on diplomacy/intimidate? -since all classes I like usually have both as class skills- I might not even want to be good on either of the skills!, the trait is already intruding on the character I want to play, but however, let's pick another one, ohh Rich Parents, princesses have rich parents, but then turns out I have to pick one or the other because both belong to the same category. And then I have to start looking again elsewhere, all of it for petty mechanics that give out situational benefits, even when I find a nice benefit, the fictional space is just meh, if not actually in direct contradiction of what I want to play.

And that is the gist, I sometimes find fictional spaces I like just to be saddled with mechanics that contradict what I want to play, and sometimes the mechanics work for my character but then the fictional spaces saddle my character with unwanted flavor for what are marginal benefits at best. The worst part is that there is tons of them scattered everywhere, and all of it overr fringe benefits/flavor I don't care for.

Reflavoring isn't an option I like, because: one) I choose what I play based on both flavor AND mechanics separating them is extremely taxing and unenjoyable to me, two) I used to prefer Pathfinder exactly because it didn't force me to separate flavor from mechanics, having it suddenly force it upon me made it lost all of its appeal to me.

They have become inescapable over the years, I can easily opt-out of archetypes, alternate racial traits, and weird later classes, but not from traits, I ask for permission not to take them I get inundated with friendly suggestions and I end up being forced to accept them in order to be nice, I convince a GM to run a game without them, other players just end up convincing him to allow them anyway... The easiest solution is not to play.