Item Levels

CapnZapp

Legend
Holy makrel!

Just saw the Item Level table of the 3rd Ed Magic Item Compendium. It is exactly the same idea I'm going with for my 5E magic item repricing project (=expressing price as a level rather than a gold amount)! :n: :)

itemlevels mic.png

(This post doesn't say anything new. Just wanted to share. Since it doesn't further the actual project, I didn't want to post in the existing threads.)
 

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jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Yes I think this is a good approach. I don't know if 30 or even 20 levels are necessary, but some kind of ranking by power level would be really useful.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
I find it useful to gauge magic items by tier.

Levels 1-4: Apprentice Tier
Levels 5-8: Professional Tier
Levels 9-12: Master Tier
Levels 13-16: Leader Tier
Levels 17-20: Legend Tier
 


guachi

Hero
Expressing pricing as a level instead of/in addition to a fixed gp equivalent is a must. Each game has a different availability of gold and magic items.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Just skimming the thread it feels you have too many conversations at once. You are trying to capture everything but haven’t really settled on anything.

To me first order of business, really decide on a price for the +1 +2 and +3 grestsword. Then the same for plate armor. Those are the anchor points to start your conversations with other combat items.
Still mulling this over. At least here we have an example of what you want (even if it was made for another edition).

For example, I have a good hunch we'll end up somewhere around 6th, 11th, and 16th.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Another matter, that ties into two comments I got in the thread on magic item prices.

[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] — I think you're overcomplicating things. Requiring the DM to both choose a curve, and potentially reprice everything relative to that curve? That's never going to fly. It's way too much work for way too little value.

I got a question.
some items are valuable at any level.
Ex. Weapon of warning, bag of holding.
Should we price them as level 20 items, since level 20 character would gladly pay for them?

My point here is a bit advanced, so please make sure you understand the underlying concepts first.

Some items are reasonable to give a static gold piece cost.

Some are not, and need to have a cost that is relative to the total wealth of the character.
Or, in other words, a cost whose gp cost depends on the character's level.

Let's take an example of each.

*** First, the Longsword +1. In this example, we will be assuming we're using a more sophisticated damage resistance scheme than the default for 5th edition.

So, heroic monsters (CR 1-10) run as written; if they have damage resistance, a +1 weapon ignores it. Paragon monsters (CR 10-20) that the MM says have damage resistance really requires a +2 weapon. A +1 weapon deals half damage, just as a non-magical weapon does. And epic monsters (CR 20+) with DR require +3.

Now, if we say our +1 Longsword costs 5000 gp, that's a significant part of a 6th level fighter's wealth. But it's a trivial expense at level 16. But this is okay because the sword is essentially worthless for the level 16 character! The 4990 gold extra you pay over a non-magical longsword still gives you +1 to attacks and +1 to damage which is nice, but getting half damage is the obvious deal-breaker here.

*** Now, for our second example, an imagined "Ring of Attunement" which grants you a fourth attunement slot. This item is just as desirable at 15th level as it is at 20th level. (It may not be as useful at low levels where the three-slot limit isn't a problem).

What should it cost? Well, the cost necessarily is "getting to have less shopping money now, in exchange to more attuned items later on". Or, alternatively, "getting to have four weaker, cheaper, items now instead of having three stronger items".

So I'm arguing it should ALWAYS cost a fraction of your wealth. At 10th level, half of what a 10th level character can be expected to have. At 20th level, half of what a 20th level character can be expected to have.

The fact the ring will become cheap as the campaign progresses is of lesser importance. What's important is that it took away half your wealth when you bought it.

This is why the concept of price-as-level is so important and useful.

This is why the concept of wealth curves is essential to pricing magic items.


Link to wealth curve thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?619626-Design-amp-Development-Wealth-Curves

Link to damage resistance thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?620368-Tiered-damage-resistance
 
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CapnZapp

Legend
To take a concrete example:

The +1 Longsword should cost 3100 gp.
At 10th level, a reasonable price for a Ring of Attunement is 8000 gp.
At 20th level, a reasonable price for a Ring of Attunement is 110000 gp.​

These figures are assuming you're using the red wealth curve (that of 3rd ed NPCs). If you are instead using a lot of Pathfinder adventures in your 5E campaign, you might want to know how the preceding text section would have read using the blue Pathfinder wealth curve:

The +1 Longsword should cost 11000 gp.
At 10th level, a reasonable price for a Ring of Attunement is 31000 gp.
At 20th level, a reasonable price for a Ring of Attunement is 440000 gp.​

***

If, on the other hand, we express this as price-as-level, we simply say:

The +1 Longsword should cost a third of 8th level.
A reasonable price for a Ring of Attunement is half your level.​

The two statement say just as much as the preceding six. And they work no matter what level you are and what wealth curve you use. Much more succinct :)
 

Nevvur

Explorer
[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]

I noticed the table values a +1 weapon higher than a +1 armor, but I seem to recall most people in previous threads valuing +armor higher than +weapons in 5e. I have a feeling that's not something you would forget, but thought it worth pointing out.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]

I noticed the table values a +1 weapon higher than a +1 armor, but I seem to recall most people in previous threads valuing +armor higher than +weapons in 5e. I have a feeling that's not something you would forget, but thought it worth pointing out.

Duly noting the table was d20 specific.
 

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