Game Mechanics And Player Agency

The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.

The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.


From the very first iteration of Dungeons & Dragons in 1974, there have been mechanics in place in RPGs to force certain decisions upon players. A classic D&D example is the charm person spell, which allows the spell caster to bring someone under their control and command. (The 1983 D&D Basic Set even includes such a possible outcome in its very first tutorial adventure, in which your hapless Fighter may fall under the sway of Bargle and "decide" to let the outlaw magic-user go free even after murdering your friend Aleena!)

It didn't take long for other RPGs to start experimenting with even greater mechanical methods of limiting player agency. Call of Cthulhu (1981) introduced the Sanity mechanic as a way of tracking the player-characters' mental stress and degeneration in the face of mind-blasting horrors. But the Temporary Insanity rules also dictated that PCs exposed to particularly nasty shocks were no longer necessarily in control of their own actions. The current edition of the game even gives the Call of Cthulhu GM carte blanche to dictate the hapless investigator's fate, having the PC come to their senses hours later having been robbed, beaten, or even institutionalized!

King Arthur Pendragon debuted in 1985 featuring even more radical behavioral mechanics. The game's system of Traits and Passions perfectly mirrors the Arthurian tales, in which normally sensible and virtuous knights and ladies with everything to lose risk it all in the name of love, hatred, vengeance, or petty jealousy. So too are the player-knights of the game driven to foolhardy heroism or destructive madness, quite often against the players' wishes. Indeed, suffering a bout of madness in Pendragon is enough to put a player-knight out of the game sometimes for (quite literally) many game-years on end…and if the player-knight does return, they are apt to have undergone significant trauma reflected in altered statistics.

The legacies of Call of Cthulhu and King Arthur Pendragon have influenced numerous other game designs down to this day, and although the charm person spell is not nearly as all-powerful as it was when first introduced in 1974 ("If the spell is successful it will cause the charmed entity to come completely under the influence of the Magic-User until such time as the 'charm' is dispelled[.]"), it and many other mind-affecting spells and items continue to bedevil D&D adventurers of all types.

Infringing on player agency calls for great care in any circumstance. As alluded to at the top of this article, GMs already have so much power in the game, that to appear to take any away from the players is bound to rankle. This is likely why games developed mechanical means to allow GMs to do so in order to make for a more interesting story without appearing biased or arbitrary. Most players, after all, would refuse to voluntarily submit to the will of an evil wizard, to faint or flee screaming in the presence of cosmic horror, or to attack an ally or lover in a blind rage. Yet these moments are often the most memorable of a campaign, and they are facilitated by behavioral mechanics.

What do you think? What's your personal "red line" for behavioral mechanics? Do behavioral mechanics have any place in RPGs, and if so, to what extent? Most crucially: do they enhance narrative or detract from it?

contributed by David Larkins
 

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Afrodyte

Explorer
One solution I haven't seen yet is using something similar to The Shadow of Yesterday's Keys where you get XP for roleplaying certain personality traits, flaws, etc.

5e doesn't directly link XP to roleplaying, but it does have Inspiration, which is something I think DMs (at least on ENWorld) tend to underutilize. Just as the DM can award Inspiration for roleplaying an ideal, bond or flaw, why not award Inspiration when a player allows their character to experience interesting complications as a result of a die roll (or however you want to word this). You don't even have to make a hard-and-fast rule with it. Go ahead and give Inspiration when a player plays along instead of digs their heels in, and tell them why they got the Inspiration so that other players can get the hint.

At least, that's how I'd deal with it.
 

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Hussar

Legend
I really wish D&D would distinguish magical from legendary. In 5e, if you achieve a 30 on a skill check, you've basically done something legendary. That's as high as the DC's go and you've basically just stolen fire from the gods level kind of thing. It's not magic in the sense that you haven't cast a spell or accessed the Weave or anything like that, but, it is the stuff of legends.

So, no, I don't really have an issue with skill checks impacting PC's. If D&D was a movie, the dice (and the rules) provide the direction. The players provide the script. As the DM, I provide everything else. So, if the rules/dice say that X is true, then it should be something that the players have to account for as they provide the script. If the cook scores (somehow) a 30 on his cooking skill, then this is mana from heaven. It truly is the best food you have ever eaten.

When the player then turns around and says, "Nope, I hate it. I don't like this food" I see that as breaking immersion at the table. It's, for lack of better words, meta-gaming. They've ignored what the game says in order to impose their own version of what's going on in the game and I would prefer it if players didn't do that.
 


pemerton

Legend
If someone is supernaturally charming, that’s beyond the norm, and seems to have more in common with a spell.

I mean, the implications can be pretty severe. Let’s say I’m playing Godlike (a supers in WWII RPG) and my character has been sent into Berlin under cover by Churchill on a mission to kill Hitler....but then he hears one of Hitler’s speeches and decides to switch sides because Hitler made a really high speech roll.....

Tables would be flipped.
Again, I think what you're identifying here is a bad mechanic. There's no actual game I know of that involves social mechanics that works as you describe. Burning Wheel comes closest, but its Persuasion skill pertains to requests or proposals, not full-scale conversion, and the obstacle penalty in these circumstances would be +2 (so Hitler might be rolling 7 or 8 dice hoping to get 4+ on 6 of them, if the spy has Will 4 - which would be at the lower end for a top-notch spy).

Furthermore, in BW the player is always free to call for a Duel of Wits if s/he thinks it's a big deal. So instead of just being persuaded on a single check, s/he can start debating the point with Hitler and have the thing unfold as a debate or argument between them. If Hitler wins that DoW, then that is the outcome of a sustained piece of resolution in which the player matched his/her PC against Hitler!

The basic orientation of BW is fight for what you believe, which brings with it the possibility of finding out that, on this occasion at least, you didn't quite have what it takes.

with Steel, it sounds more like a fear check, for which many games have some kind of mechanic, and which usually involves some far out elements I wouldn’t attribute to something a person can achieve with a skill (dragon fear, horror checks, and the like).

<snip>

I think a game mechanic to replicate things far beyond the normal human experience influencing the state of mind of the PC is just fine.

But the skill of an NPC dictating the behavior of a PC just seems undesirable to me.
In Burning Wheel, the Intimidate skill can be used to force a Steel check. Various actions in a Duel of Wits can also have this effect.

In Cortex+ Heroic, a character can make a check to inflict a fear-related complication, or emotional stress, on another character. PCs and NPCs are completely symmetrical in this respect. The same reolution system is used to determine wither Wolverine scares someone with his claws, whether a telepath scares someone by forcing them to recall a frightening memory, or whether a dragon scares someone with its aura of fear.

I think that if the game in question has mechanics designed around this, that’s fine. They may be great or lousy, as any game element may be. It varies from game to game, I suppose.

But when such mechanics are absent, or not clearly defined, that’s where I’d lean toward not allowing skills to be so influential.
A lot of your approach to this discussion seems to be adopting a 5e take on this - for instance, your conception of what skills are and what they're for. As best I understand it, 5e has fairly unclear rules for determining the consequences of skill checks whether made by players for PCs or by the GM for NPCs.

As is probably clear, I'm not coming from a particularly 5e point of view. When I think of D&D skills my paradigm is 4e, and there is no inherent difference between skills and other capabilities in 4e. (Though 4e does not, in general, have robust NPC-to-PC influence mechanics, because it's main mechanic for handling the outcomes of skill checks - namely, the skill challenge - is entirely a player-side thing.)

That said, nothing about 4e would stop the GM having a creature make an Intimidation check to inflict a round of dazed on a PC, or perhaps 1 square of forced movement back. This is part of the broader "p 42" system for determining checks and consequences of checks in 4e, as amplified by a mix of common sense and the late wrecan's article on how to adjudicate non-damage consequences.

Ok, then what's the equivalent bonus for all the other skills. Because if you give one skill a concrete mechanical bonus like that (looking at you, Perception) then it becomes objectively better than all the skills that don't have such bonuses.
Don't all elements of character build give the player of the character some way or other of overcoming obstacles or changing the fiction in some desired fashion?
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
When the player then turns around and says, "Nope, I hate it. I don't like this food" I see that as breaking immersion at the table. It's, for lack of better words, meta-gaming. They've ignored what the game says in order to impose their own version of what's going on in the game and I would prefer it if players didn't do that.

I think we just have playstyle differences. I am perhaps more interested in letting the players contribute to the setting, not limited to what their character does. I don't see it as "imposing" their own version of what's going on, I see them as also contributing.

Now, the example in this case doesn't seem to contribute as much as detracts, or at least it contradicts somebody else's contribution, which isn't cool. And if the person is just being contrarian/difficult then I won't play with them very long. But the player may have a really good reason for doing something as surprising as this. I'd prefer to start from the assumption that they are going to contribute constructively, rather than have blanket rules to prevent them from doing so in the first place.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Don't all elements of character build give the player of the character some way or other of overcoming obstacles or changing the fiction in some desired fashion?

Yes. Maybe I didn't explain my point well. If one skill (say Arcana) is effectively "when the situation arises, your DM may allow you to add your proficiency bonus to certain skill checks" and another (say Persuasion) is "same as above, and success results in an ongoing penalty equal to your skill modifier to those who you Persuade", then it seems to me that one of those skills is just a better/stronger skill.

So if you're going to give one of those skills a specific mechanic for what success means, you have to give it to all of them.

So what's the comparative benefit for Arcana?
 

pemerton

Legend
Yes. Maybe I didn't explain my point well. If one skill (say Arcana) is effectively "when the situation arises, your DM may allow you to add your proficiency bonus to certain skill checks" and another (say Persuasion) is "same as above, and success results in an ongoing penalty equal to your skill modifier to those who you Persuade", then it seems to me that one of those skills is just a better/stronger skill.

So if you're going to give one of those skills a specific mechanic for what success means, you have to give it to all of them.

So what's the comparative benefit for Arcana?
In the context of 5e I don't really know how to answer this question. I don't think the 5e ability check/skill system, in it's basic form, is robust enough to support a strong system for social interaction, or other clear contributions to resolving conflicts; and my 5e design-fu is not strong enough to just come up with a robust variant. (The system presents some exceptions eg using Athletics in some hand-to-hand conflicts. But those don't provide an obvious model for generalising to other abilities/skills.)

In 4e, it's easy to envisage using Arcana to impose a penalty on a character. My own play experience is with Religion in that respect rather than Arcana (eg speaking a prayer to the Raven Queen to impose a penalty on an undead opponent) but I don't think Arcana would be any different (eg if the opponent was an elemental).

Am I talking about the right sort of thing to address your question?
 
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G

Guest 6801328

Guest
In the context of 5e I don't really know how to answer this question. I don't think the 5e ability check/skill system, in it's basic form, is robust enough to support a strong system for social interaction, or other clear contributions to resolving conflicts; and my 5e design-fu is not strong enough to just come up with a robust variant. (The system presents some exceptions eg using Athletics in some hand-to-hand conflicts. But those don't provide an obvious model for generalising to other abilities/skills.)

In 4e, it's easy to envisage using Arcana to impose a penalty on a character. My own play experience is with Religion in that respect rather than Arcana (eg speaking a prayer to the Raven Queen to impose a penalty on an undead opponent) but I don't think Arcana would be any different (eg if the opponent was an elemental).

Am I talking about the right sort of thing to address your question?

Kinda. I'm not really looking for a specific answer to the Arcana question. I'm using it illustratively to show that if you're going to give a specific mechanical benefit to some skills, you really need to give them to all the skills.

Maybe some people would like that. Sounds clunky to me. You've suddenly changed skills into a something used to determine general success (that is, Intransitive) into something that has an explicit effect on others (Transitive).
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
I really wish D&D would distinguish magical from legendary. In 5e, if you achieve a 30 on a skill check, you've basically done something legendary. That's as high as the DC's go and you've basically just stolen fire from the gods level kind of thing. It's not magic in the sense that you haven't cast a spell or accessed the Weave or anything like that, but, it is the stuff of legends.

So, no, I don't really have an issue with skill checks impacting PC's. If D&D was a movie, the dice (and the rules) provide the direction. The players provide the script. As the DM, I provide everything else. So, if the rules/dice say that X is true, then it should be something that the players have to account for as they provide the script. If the cook scores (somehow) a 30 on his cooking skill, then this is mana from heaven. It truly is the best food you have ever eaten.

When the player then turns around and says, "Nope, I hate it. I don't like this food" I see that as breaking immersion at the table. It's, for lack of better words, meta-gaming. They've ignored what the game says in order to impose their own version of what's going on in the game and I would prefer it if players didn't do that.

It depends though. Something like the “best food ever” is subjective. It cannot be dictated across the board. Plus, maybe it was an asparagus dish...in which case the ghost of Julia Child could fly down from Mount Celestia on a unicorn to deliver it to me and I’d still gag. I loathe asparagus.

But the scenario you’ve described can be annoying, I agree. If there was ever an instance where the quality of food mattered that much, and the player just wanted to be difficult, I’d be annoyed. But I have a hard time imagining such a scenario.

Obviously there might be other skills where the usage would be more relevant to the unfolding story, but I find such situations are better served by simple narrative description. I’ll describe the NPCs speech as impassioned and persuasive, and present its content to support that. Then, the player can decide how his PC reacts.

I mean, we’ve all of us heard people make incredibly convincing arguments, even ones we can’t refute, and then still disagreed with them. The PCs’ reactions are theirs to choose.
 

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Guest 6801328

Guest
I mean, we’ve all of us heard people make incredibly convincing arguments, even ones we can’t refute, and then still disagreed with them.

In other words, when faced with a really persuasive NPC, it would be excellent roleplaying to:

1) Intentionally misconstrue their arguments so as to mock the implications
2) Pick out a small factual or grammatical error and use that to undermine the speaker's credibility
3) Make a reference to D&D back in '77, ostensibly because it somehow fits the topic, but really to establish some kind of seniority to lend weight to our own weak arguments.
4) Accuse the NPC of metagaming.
5) Ridicule their logic, comprehension, and clarity, then act all butt-hurt when they reciprocate and accuse us of resorting to personal attacks.
5) Block them.
 

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