Do we still expect the Revised Ranger and Artificer this year?


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lkj

Hero
I don't know. At the end of last year, WotC folk vaguely suggested that we might see something early this year for those classes. After that, I didn't hear much about the Artificer. I do wonder, with some of the Eberron hints, whether we might see a an official version sooner than we think. But who knows.

With regard to the revised ranger, it was mentioned that they were considering substitute class features rather than a fully revised class. It was also mentioned that they might want to do that for other classes as well. And I definitely got the impression that they had decided to delay any UA while they revisited the whole topic and decided what to do. The last time I remember Crawford talking about it he made some comments to the effect that their data indicated that most people were actually ok with the ranger as is (i.e., that perhaps some of us unhappy people are a vocal minority) and that they really had to balance making changes against the confusion it might cause for the general D&D public. It left me wondering whether they were thinking about pulling back from the idea of doing anything at all (i.e., if it ain't broken that bad, don't fix it). But that's just speculation.

If I were going to speculate further (total wild speculation), I wonder whether they'll eventually release a UA with alternate class features for a bunch of classes and sell it as a customization option rather than a fix. Might be easier then to fit in some expansion down the road, wouldn't invalidate existing PHB classes, etc.

As for this year? I think that given current info, that's a big maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if something showed up in the fall. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it took longer. They clearly don't mind taking more time if they think they are more likely to get it right that way (psionics being a prime example).

That's my two cents!

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
As far as Artificer goes, Mearls recently told somebody on Twitter that it would be a good idea to wait a little while on building an Artificer. I think we will see something soon.
 

I don't know. At the end of last year, WotC folk vaguely suggested that we might see something early this year for those classes. After that, I didn't hear much about the Artificer. I do wonder, with some of the Eberron hints, whether we might see a an official version sooner than we think. But who knows.

With regard to the revised ranger, it was mentioned that they were considering substitute class features rather than a fully revised class. It was also mentioned that they might want to do that for other classes as well. And I definitely got the impression that they had decided to delay any UA while they revisited the whole topic and decided what to do. The last time I remember Crawford talking about it he made some comments to the effect that their data indicated that most people were actually ok with the ranger as is (i.e., that perhaps some of us unhappy people are a vocal minority) and that they really had to balance making changes against the confusion it might cause for the general D&D public. It left me wondering whether they were thinking about pulling back from the idea of doing anything at all (i.e., if it ain't broken that bad, don't fix it). But that's just speculation.

If I were going to speculate further (total wild speculation), I wonder whether they'll eventually release a UA with alternate class features for a bunch of classes and sell it as a customization option rather than a fix. Might be easier then to fit in some expansion down the road, wouldn't invalidate existing PHB classes, etc.

As for this year? I think that given current info, that's a big maybe. I wouldn't be surprised if something showed up in the fall. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it took longer. They clearly don't mind taking more time if they think they are more likely to get it right that way (psionics being a prime example).

That's my two cents!

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The ranger and some other classes have some problems. But the ranger is a very effective package. Increasing its power level is not what is needed. All revised classes were a mess. Too powerful. If you look at the new subclasses, you notice that those have signature spells to shore up their weak spell selection and features that work well together. The gloom stalker inherited the ambusher feature of the revised ranger. I think if you just play those subclasses, you won´t be unhappy.
 

I think the problem is that content is coming in addition the all their regular work. Thye’re given a choice between writing content for a book that will be published and writing content to give away and test, and the former wins out every time.

Especially for the ranger, which won’t ever end up in a book.
It’s always at the bottom of the to-do pile.
 

lkj

Hero
The ranger and some other classes have some problems. But the ranger is a very effective package. Increasing its power level is not what is needed. All revised classes were a mess. Too powerful. If you look at the new subclasses, you notice that those have signature spells to shore up their weak spell selection and features that work well together. The gloom stalker inherited the ambusher feature of the revised ranger. I think if you just play those subclasses, you won´t be unhappy.

Not worth getting into here, but I think the ranger (at least the hunter) suffered less from flaws in mechanical design and more from how it 'felt'. I think ranger fans felt like they were getting an underwhelming class, regardless of the numbers. At least that was the experience I had with my group. Part of that I think is that some of the ranger's major features were 'buried' in spells (Hunter's Mark), which made it less obvious how they could keep up with other classes. WotC designers have commented before that it's just-- perhaps even more-- important how people perceive the class as it is how balanced it actually is. And I don't disagree with that. You want your class to feel like it has cool abilities that sits right up there with the rest.

Now, I know the beastmaster ranger tended to have more complaints. But I've not had anyone try that class, so I don't really have an opinion.

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jgsugden

Legend
...Especially for the ranger, which won’t ever end up in a book.
It’s always at the bottom of the to-do pile.
I am not so sure. I would not be surprised to see a PHB 2 with variant class features for all existing classes, some new classes, etc.... Hopefully it would be treated as Core for Core +1 if it does happen.
 

lkj

Hero
This is why I think they might opt to use alternate class features and advertise them as an expansion rather than a replacement. They just have to make sure those alternates don't very obviously outshine the existing features.

But I don't think they'll call it PHB 2. They've mentioned that this causes confusion to new folks who believe that a PHB 2 leads people to believe that it's the updated version of the first book. If anything, it'll be more like a Xanathar type book.

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I am not so sure. I would not be surprised to see a PHB 2 with variant class features for all existing classes, some new classes, etc.... Hopefully it would be treated as Core for Core +1 if it does happen.

Mearls has a fun story about meeting a player of 4e, who picked up “Players Handbook 3” figuring it was the newest and most revised version of the rules, not realizing it was an expansion.
I doubt very much they’ll do a PHB2.

A big book of variant class features is a good idea for a 3PP, but I doubt it’s planned. Subclasses seem to be the customization method, not variant features. Because they have associated story and character hooks that aid the design. Alternate class features are just mechanical.
Even something like a spell-less ranger seems to be handled via a rogue subclass rather than a variant version of the class.

Plus, giving 2-3 options at every level will just lead to pure power creep. Which pretty much happened with the ranger, which got a power increase at every single level.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I think the problem is that content is coming in addition the all their regular work. Thye’re given a choice between writing content for a book that will be published and writing content to give away and test, and the former wins out every time.

Especially for the ranger, which won’t ever end up in a book.
It’s always at the bottom of the to-do pile.
That holds true for the muddled Ranger experiments, but the Artificer they seem to want to feature as a major event release, hence all of the careful playtesting.
 

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