D&D 5E Hang Time - What if you jump farther than your speed?

5ekyu · Jul 18, 2018

Oofta said:
They aren't pre-spending anything. They are committed to a course of movement based on what they've done. You can't really change direction mid-leap. No different than if they had leaped off a thousand foot cliff and were still falling at the end of their turn.

If on their turn the extra height of their leap allowed them to see their target square contained a trap that they hadn't seen before they still couldn't change where they were going to land. No difference.

I don't see why this is a hard concept.

What makes you think this is a hard concept? Its really quite simple on the surface. But like some things which seem simple, it has scope beyond the surface.

The hangtime thing can create a lot of possibilities. I ready an action to shoot an enemy i can see and i run 15' and start a leap across the 30' gap and go into hangtime there over the gap 15' across.

During the round that follows enemies appear down below and my ready shot goes off.

Start of my ne t turn, i take that opportunity to use that turn attsck to shoot again as i complete the jump.

Two turns of shots during one "jump".

Thats a more active use thsn ssy the defensive "thwart hold person" kind of on i gave before.

As for the jargon...

If you prefer to use "comitting" as your label for getting your movement from next turn locked in now instead of "pre-spending" thats great. No problem.

Are there any other activities from next turn you allow player to pre... Errr... "commit" on previous turns so they still go off even if they would be unavailable? There may not be but i am curious since i dont have the experience with your house rule in 5e.

In HERO, for example, you could "call up" to dodge or block iirc as a reaction, losing your whole next turn but that was for reaction not during your turn.

Oofta · Jul 18, 2018

5ekyu said:
What makes you think this is a hard concept? Its really quite simple on the surface. But like some things which seem simple, it has scope beyond the surface.

The hangtime thing can create a lot of possibilities. I ready an action to shoot an enemy i can see and i run 15' and start a leap across the 30' gap and go into hangtime there over the gap 15' across.

During the round that follows enemies appear down below and my ready shot goes off.

Start of my ne t turn, i take that opportunity to use that turn attsck to shoot again as i complete the jump.

Two turns of shots during one "jump".

Thats a more active use thsn ssy the defensive "thwart hold person" kind of on i gave before.

As for the jargon...

If you prefer to use "comitting" as your label for getting your movement from next turn locked in now instead of "pre-spending" thats great. No problem.

Are there any other activities from next turn you allow player to pre... Errr... "commit" on previous turns so they still go off even if they would be unavailable? There may not be but i am curious since i dont have the experience with your house rule in 5e.

In HERO, for example, you could "call up" to dodge or block iirc as a reaction, losing your whole next turn but that was for reaction not during your turn.

Just a quibble, but the readied action would only allow a single attack, not multiple but otherwise yes. Sounds kind of epic actually. I can see somebody could abuse it if they have magically enhanced jumping, but not more than someone who could fly.

I don't generally allow people to commit to anything for their next round, but there are exceptions to most rules.

Oofta · Jul 18, 2018

Hriston said:
Here's [MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION]'s stated action declaration: "I leap across the chasm to the extent of my remaining movement",

By the way, unless I missed something [MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION] never said "I leap across the chasm to the extent of my remaining movement". The statement was

While working on some homebrew material I was confronted with the question of what to do when a character or monster jumps and the distance they can jump is longer than their remaining movement.

I interpret those as two completely different statements of intent.

5ekyu · Jul 19, 2018

Oofta said:
Just a quibble, but the readied action would only allow a single attack, not multiple but otherwise yes. Sounds kind of epic actually. I can see somebody could abuse it if they have magically enhanced jumping, but not more than someone who could fly.

I don't generally allow people to commit to anything for their next round, but there are exceptions to most rules.

not sure what the quibble is?

"During the round that follows enemies appear down below and my ready shot goes off."

But hey...

Hriston · Jul 19, 2018

Oofta said:
No one would say that if their intent was to cross the chasm.

They can’t cross the chasm on this turn, though, so what action should they declare for this turn if that’s their intent?

Oofta said:
The way you run your game, you would tell them that they cannot leap across the chasm this turn because they don't have enough movement. That instead, they could jump down and continue their movement next turn.

I would let them know that they will be mid-leap until their next turn. That once they leap, they've committed to the leap and that the enemy may target them while they are mid-leap.

That's all. If I misrepresented what you said I apologize.

It’s mostly the habit you have of telling me what I do, which you’ve just exhibited again, although what you say above is fine, except I’m not sure what you mean by “jump down”. I've been assuming a functionally bottomless chasm, but if jumping down and running across the bottom is a viable means of getting across, then of course that's an option.

Oofta said:
By the way, unless I missed something [MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION] never said "I leap across the chasm to the extent of my remaining movement".

Since you seem to have missed the post, I'll quote it here in its entirety:

MechaPilot said:
Well, "I leap across the chasm to the extent of my remaining movement" is something the character can accomplish within the turn's constraints, as is "I continue my aerial movement across the chasm and land before doing _____" on the character's next turn. If "what you state must be accomplishable on your turn" is the standard, then it's really just a matter of phrasing your words so that you only say the things you're going to do that occur in that round.

Which also begs the question with regard to hiding, sneaking, and other multi-round activities that I presume you allow characters to do but which are not concluded in a single round. But whatever. Every DM has their own preferred way of running things. As long as you and the people at your table are having fun, who cares what anyone else does.

Oofta said:
The statement was

While working on some homebrew material I was confronted with the question of what to do when a character or monster jumps and the distance they can jump is longer than their remaining movement.

I interpret those as two completely different statements of intent.

I agree that her one-turn action declaration doesn't do a very good job of expressing the intent to do what's described in the OP. But what would that action declaration look like if it did express that intent? Is "I jump a distance longer than my remaining movement" really a permissible action declaration? I can see that the answer varies from table to table. At my table, the answer is "no" because an action declaration is a statement of what you're doing on your turn only. YMMV.

Pauper · Jul 19, 2018

5ekyu said:
To me, it seems that one who is very concerned about the "pc perspective" rules framework might find it easier to minimize the whacky results by using the athletics jump rules to resolve the action.

It's a very short step from 'make an Athletics check to finish your jump even though you're out of movement' to 'make an Athletics check to move the last 10 feet up to the bad guy so you can attack' to 'make an Athletics check to move as far as you want regardless of your speed'.

The point of things like the 'Improvise an Action' action and using ability checks are to adjudicate things that the rules don't cover, not to allow characters to break the rules. A solution that stays within the existing rules framework is superior, to me, to a solution that creates an ad-hoc exception to the rules, especially when that exception can be easily extrapolated to other situations and grow into its own 'rule'.

--
Pauper

Oofta · Jul 19, 2018

Hriston said:
They can’t cross the chasm on this turn, though, so what action should they declare for this turn if that’s their intent?

Assume it's a newbie that doesn't know how you rule. Why would they not state that they want to jump across the chasm? After all, that's what their character wants to do. Run after the BBEG without hesitation, leaping across the chasm along the way.

Hriston said:
It’s mostly the habit you have of telling me what I do, which you’ve just exhibited again, although what you say above is fine, except I’m not sure what you mean by “jump down”. I've been assuming a functionally bottomless chasm, but if jumping down and running across the bottom is a viable means of getting across, then of course that's an option.

Except you just confirmed what I said in your very first line of this post. "They can't...". They can't because you've decided they can't end their turn mid-air. I've decided they can.

Sometimes I repeat back my understanding of what other people are stating so that I'm sure I understand their point of view. If I've misrepresented anything, let me know.

Hriston said:
Since you seem to have missed the post, I'll quote it here in its entirety:

I agree that her one-turn action declaration doesn't do a very good job of expressing the intent to do what's described in the OP. But what would that action declaration look like if it did express that intent? Is "I jump a distance longer than my remaining movement" really a permissible action declaration? I can see that the answer varies from table to table. At my table, the answer is "no" because an action declaration is a statement of what you're doing on your turn only. YMMV.

My ruling is also a declaration of intent of what you want to do during your turn. They won't be able to change direction mid-leap of course. They can still be targeted which could disrupt the leap. I would describe the other turns as if it were a movie and the camera is panning to other people while their character leaps.

Or at least I would if this ever actually happened in a game.

Otterscrubber · Jul 19, 2018

smbakeresq said:
Then you just ready an action to hit them as they come straight down, and I would grant a bonus if it’s a weapon you can set against a charge like a spear.

I like this interpretation. A lot.

Hriston · Jul 20, 2018

Oofta said:
Assume it's a newbie that doesn't know how you rule. Why would they not state that they want to jump across the chasm? After all, that's what their character wants to do. Run after the BBEG without hesitation, leaping across the chasm along the way.

They can state that. I would then let them know how much of it they can accomplish on their turn, that they can make it as far as the edge of the chasm, but that jumping across will happen on their next turn. I would then give them a chance to refine their action declaration.

Oofta said:
Except you just confirmed what I said in your very first line of this post. "They can't...". They can't because you've decided they can't end their turn mid-air. I've decided they can.

Sometimes I repeat back my understanding of what other people are stating so that I'm sure I understand their point of view. If I've misrepresented anything, let me know.

I agreed with what you said, that I "would tell them that they cannot leap across the chasm this turn because they don't have enough movement." That's correct. What you say here, though, that they "can't because you've decided they can't end their turn mid-air." That isn't part of my decision. If they were falling for more than 500 feet, for example, their turn would end in mid-air. I don't have a problem with that.

Oofta said:
My ruling is also a declaration of intent of what you want to do during your turn. They won't be able to change direction mid-leap of course. They can still be targeted which could disrupt the leap. I would describe the other turns as if it were a movie and the camera is panning to other people while their character leaps.

Or at least I would if this ever actually happened in a game.

That goes beyond the scope of one turn, though. To allow the declaration "I leap across the chasm", you're dedicating movement from the character's next turn because there isn't enough movement left on this turn to do that.

Oofta · Jul 20, 2018

Hriston said:
That goes beyond the scope of one turn, though. To allow the declaration "I leap across the chasm", you're dedicating movement from the character's next turn because there isn't enough movement left on this turn to do that.

So? To be technically correct, they have not declared anything about their next turn. Based on their angular momentum they will continue following the arc of their leap at the start of the next turn unless an outside force or magic acts upon them. That's just physics.

Short of being shot out of the sky, I know what direction they are moving at the start of the next turn. I don't have a problem with that. Apparently you do have a problem with it.

The only time I've ever hit anything like this in a real game as a while back I had an encounter/skill challenge where the PCs were flying gliders. I had borrowed rules from somewhere, but the short version is that you couldn't stop without crashing and it took a while to turn.

So at the end of every turn I knew where the PC was headed on their next turn unless something caused them to crash. I don't see this as any different. I don't see why it would cause any issues.

D&D 5E Hang Time - What if you jump farther than your speed?

5ekyu

Hero

Oofta

Legend

Oofta

Legend

5ekyu

Hero

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.

Oofta

Legend

Otterscrubber

First Post

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth

Oofta

Legend

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