Orcus Vs Strahd plot help

So in my COS, Strahd made a deal with Death to grant him vampirism. (dont like the amber temple thing) It seems that Orcus, would be a good entity to have granted this & made a deal with him.

My understanding is that the Demi planes of dread are carved out of the Shadowfell, which irritates the Raven Queen.

In my campaign Strahd has escaped Barovia, his motivation all along, though not in the method he intended due to player actions; Hes incorporal, at least for the time being.

Some questions I need help answering, and I appreciate any input:

>Why would Orcus set Strahd up as a vampire? Is he hiding something there in Barovia, or just wants to irritate the Raven Queen
>Why does Strahd now want to escape the deal? Is he running from Orcus, confronting him? It would be nice to avoid "wants to be a god" plot.

>I feel like this may set up a three way thing between Strahd, Orcus and the Raven Queen; How could the party be involved in that?

I understand that yall don't know my campaign, but it helps me to think things through by typing; And I really would love some input.


G

What springs to mind is, based on the fact that Orcus has been killed before, then brought himself back to life (see also his time as Tenebrus and the old Dead Gods module), is that he’s got some sort of MacGuffin in Barovia to ensure his survival in the event of his death again. Perhaps even some sort of, ahem, Dead Man’s Switch, that will spill undead and other horrors out in the event of his demise.

As far as why Strahd wants out of whatever deal, Strahd is arrogance personified. He would not tolerate being used and manipulated, nor being second fiddle to someone else. Or maybe he thinks he can subvert whatever Orcus is doing to his own gain, to expand his rule to the prime material or some such.

My suggestion:

Orcus's plan was to make Strahd into a walking locus of Abyssal power. Per "Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes," when the Abyss establishes a foothold in a world, its power can spread like an infection, ultimately consuming that world and turning it into another layer of the Abyss itself.

Orcus created a link between Strahd and Thanatos (Orcus's layer of the Abyss). In any world where Strahd dwelled for long, portals to Thanatos would start to open, demons and undead would spread across the land, and that world would become another layer under Orcus's dominion. Orcus would then send Strahd to another world and begin the process again.

Barovia was Strahd's nursery. Orcus cast Barovia into the Shadowfell, where Strahd's link to Thanatos turned it into a demiplanar prison. The intent was that Strahd would stay there until Orcus had gnawed away his mind, making him a willing puppet of the demon prince. Then Barovia would be destroyed and Strahd released. Strahd, however, proved stronger than Orcus anticipated; he fought the Abyss's madness for centuries, his mind slipping by inches but never fully letting go.

Now, Strahd is free and back in the material plane, and the corruption of Thanatos is spreading in his wake. Strahd doesn't yet understand the link between him and the Abyss, but he's apt to figure it out eventually. When he does, he will want out - he has no desire to spend eternity as Orcus's messenger boy. Of course, he still wants to keep his immortality and his vampire powers. He is very keen on having his cake and eating it too.

By the time the PCs track him down, the corruption has taken hold; killing Strahd will prevent him infecting other worlds, but it won't save theirs. In addition, there may be a way to use the link to Thanatos to their advantage. This sets up the possibility that the PCs will eventually find themselves allied with Strahd against Orcus, though having to watch their backs every second.

The Raven Queen is royally pissed off at Orcus having dumped a big pile of Abyssal corruption in her realm, and since she also hates Orcus on general principles, she will gladly help the party put a stop to his plans. On the other hand, destroying Strahd is her top priority. She wouldn't mind saving the PCs' world from Orcus, but if sacrificing one world is the price of saving a hundred others, that's fine with her.

Orcus is annoyed that vampires switched to LE in 5e, so his plan is to tell Strahd he is Mammon (big ugly humanoid-looking type with wings), and since vampires are LE, if the archdevil in charge of vampires tells the rest of the vampires Strahd is their king, they will go for it. Orcus actual plan is to use Strahd to infect the vamps with CE energies, turning them back to CE. Sadly CE vampires don't need a king anymore, so when Strahd figures this out, he is mad as heck and won't take it anymore.....


Orcus, looking like Mammon, racks up some big debts at the Bavarian Downs race track (demon lords love to play the ponies, oh yeah and the whole Blood War thing), so the PC's and Strahd might have some infernal help (but you can bet Strahd and the devils have no problems with the PC's soaking up the damage).

Strahd of course loves Barovia; it's his home. But he also realizes that greater individuals - such as himself - are called to higher destinies. He has it in mind to create a larger kingdom; maybe even an empire, if he can find the right lieutenants to supervise the necessary bureaucracy.
His approximate plan is similar to how the House of Hapsburg created Austria. Knowing his own powers and immortality, he can choose a province, remove (forcibly) dynastic heirs/rivals, take a wife from among the survivors, let her pass naturally from old age, inherit her kingdom, repeat.

This all requires he escape the bounds around Barovia and return back to the Material World.

MechaTarrasque said:

Orcus is annoyed that vampires switched to LE in 5e

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Were vampires previously not lawful evil in D&D? I know that vampires are represented in a million different ways in fiction, but lawful evil always made sense to me. I mean Dracula's plan to terrorize London involved legally purchasing properties so that he could set up his lairs there. If that isn't lawful I don't know what is.

Given that Orcus' end goal is the destruction of all living things and that vampires require feeding on living things there's a good reason for Strahd to work against his patron.

Gwaihir said:

>Why would Orcus set Strahd up as a vampire? Is he hiding something there in Barovia, or just wants to irritate the Raven Queen

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Note that setting him up as a vampire is not itself that big a deal. There's lots of vampires around.

Not all vampires become rulers of demi-planes, though. This is the part that needs explanation, and is the cross-plane-politically interesting bit.

I see two basic options with similar results:

1) Orcus made Stradh a vampire. No big deal. He probably does that kind of things three times a week and twice on Sundays. Stradh somehow managed the demi-plane on his own somehow, or it happened by accident. But, since Orcus made him, Orcus has some power of him, and Orcus has plans for the demi-plane. Stradh, having tasted something like *real* power, wants to keep Barovia for himself, and no longer wants to be Orcus' monkey - thus the conflict. Stradh is ow set up to try to plan Orcus and the Raven Queen against each other, hoping to come out of it in some way where he's in control of his own destiny and demi-plane.

2) Orcus set Stradh up as master of the demi-plane. The vampire thing is merely a way to make Stradh nigh-immortal, so that this setup isn't just a flash in the pan, cosmically speaking. After a couple of millennia, being Orcus' monkey would wear on anyone, 'cuz he's got all the manners of a kaiju otyugh. Stradh wants out, and settign Orcus and the Raven Queen to fight may be his best option.

>Why does Strahd now want to escape the deal? Is he running from Orcus, confronting him? It would be nice to avoid "wants to be a god" plot.

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"I don't wanna be Orcus' monkey anymore" is pretty rational position. He doesn't need to want to be a god. But, having been ruler of a demi-plane, is he going to be satisfied with being a plain-old garden variety vampire again? Or *shudder* mortal again? Probably not.

>I feel like this may set up a three way thing between Strahd, Orcus and the Raven Queen; How could the party be involved in that?

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The typical way would be for minons of each of these powers to engage the PCs to accomplish goals that the PCs don't realize have another purpose. "Go fetch the Gizmo of The Great Wizard McGuffin!" without saying that the Gizmo is part of a major working that can reunite the demi-plane with the Shadowfell. "Go escort this woman to Point X, and assist her in unseatign theoppressive mayor of the town" without saying that Point X is just outside the mists, and the woman is a succubus in disguise, and the whole overthrowign the Mayor is just a way to get Stradh's attention on her - the plan is for Stradh to fall for her and be distracted while Orcus does something nefarious.... And so on.

Eventually, the PCs figure out who they are actually working for, and why, and have to pick sides... or die. Dying is always an option. When caught between death gods, how hard is it going to be to die, and how unpleasant could the experience possibly be?

MonkeezOnFire said:

Were vampires previously not lawful evil in D&D? I know that vampires are represented in a million different ways in fiction, but lawful evil always made sense to me. I mean Dracula's plan to terrorize London involved legally purchasing properties so that he could set up his lairs there. If that isn't lawful I don't know what is.

Given that Orcus' end goal is the destruction of all living things and that vampires require feeding on living things there's a good reason for Strahd to work against his patron.

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I think there has been the implication in earlier editions that you could have been CE if you were evil and intentionally inflicted chaos on society or damaged the fabric of society (so you could be a CE meticulous bomb-making terrorist). I think the idea was that vampires weakened society (but not destroyed it) so that they could hunt without fear of organized resistance (emphasis on organized). That isn't really CE in the last couple of editions, so they moved them (it might have actually happened before 5e, but I don't recall).

It amuses me to have cosmic types be upset with how things change between editions.

I don't think Vampires are LE. I think they are Any Evil. Strahd is just Lawful Evil cause he was Lawful.

Orcus is not the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, I doubt he had anything to do with setting Strahd up with the Demiplane. But Orcus is all about turning things into undead. Strahd is likely not special in that regard, and Orcus cares nothing about his little patch of land.

The Dark Powers that may have created the Demiplanes of Dread could in fact be the Raven Queen. (As the ways she operates makes her seem similar.) As Well being trapped in a land that is pretty much his personal Hell was never part of Strahd's deal. Being able to leave his Land was always his desire.

MonsterEnvy said:

I don't think Vampires are LE. I think they are Any Evil. Strahd is just Lawful Evil cause he was Lawful.

Orcus is not the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, I doubt he had anything to do with setting Strahd up with the Demiplane. But Orcus is all about turning things into undead. Strahd is likely not special in that regard, and Orcus cares nothing about his little patch of land.

The Dark Powers that may have created the Demiplanes of Dread could in fact be the Raven Queen. (As the ways she operates makes her seem similar.) As Well being trapped in a land that is pretty much his personal Hell was never part of Strahd's deal. Being able to leave his Land was always his desire.

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The generic vampire in the MM is LE, but they may have been thinking of Strahd when they made the entry.