Multi classing Objections: Rules vs. Fluff?

Warlords don't cast spells.
Pssh. It was 4E. Everyone cast spells, some of them just pretended they didn't. :p

It'd make an OK Skald, I guess - though, really, Valor Bard by itself makes an OK Skald.
I mean, that is what it's there for.

The weapon and armor proficiency's a bit wonky, though. Awkward reality of the subclass system, and strong case for "level three is the new level one".
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
Pssh. It was 4E. Everyone cast spells, some of them just pretended they didn't. :p
Still not true. Still not funny.

Warlords did not cast spells.

(Not unless they MC'd to Wizard or otherwise acquired a spell from some source other than their class... Hybrid Warlord|Artificer, for instance, could totally cast some spells.)

Bard and McBard in 5e hard-fail as Warlord substitutes.

It's just a category error. It's like if there were no wizard, but, hey, you could play a Thief - with Expertise in Sleight of Hand he could do some mean card tricks...

The weapon and armor proficiency's a bit wonky, though. Awkward reality of the subclass system, and strong case for "level three is the new level one".
"3rd is the new 1st" really did not catch on the way I expected it to.
 
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Tony Vargas

Legend
Backgrounds in 5e have partially fixed that problem
Much like MCing partially fixes it. Any choices you have in addition to class - Race(1e-5e), sub-class(1e-2e,Essentials,5e), Kit(2e only), Feats(3e,4e,~5e), PrCs (3e only), Backgrounds(4e & 5e), Theme(4e), Path(4e), Destiny(4e), or Archetype(PF) - are like quasi-classes that you can multi-class to without giving up anything from your main class.
The more you introduce choices notwithstanding class, the closer you move the system to being classless.
 
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jasper

Rotten DM
Hiya!



No. Why do you ask?



It's not the 'leveling up day' so much as the 194 days prior to that leveling up being filled with rest, swinging swords, killing orcs and traipsing through a multi-level dungeon in platemail. And then, on the 195th day, when they finally have enough XP to gain a level...put "Warlock, 1st Level" down. The prior 194 days had the character doing absolutely nothing with regards to becoming a Warlock. The player just "decided" to add it. That's what I don't like about it.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
But But remember all those times I handed you a note telling I was sneaking the spell book out of mage's pack at night? Then snuck it back in. Oh yet you told be to quit Fbeeeeppppiing around. And started throwing those notes back in my face? Well note 50,60,184. 193, 111, all said I was secretly studying the books to became a spell caster.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Using the standard array 15,14,13,12,10,8 And knowing you need a 13 in both stats at least.
Barbarian Fighter Str 13
Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock 13
Cleric, Druid, wisdom 13
Fighter, Rogue, Dex 13
Wizard Int 13
Monk Ranger Dex and Wis 13
Paladin Str and Cha 13
Just how many classes can you multiclass into before you have to level up in a class to get a stat bump?
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Wow, you guys just dodged a lengthy bullet. I spent 20 minutes writing a really long post and when I hit submit I had been logged out and it has now, alas, been lost to the ether. Damnit.

Anyway, main points (sans carefully worked beautiful turns of phrase):
- To me: character development is more importnat that mechanical benefit.
- Sorcerers are a pain because your charcater is just going along, minding his own busin...WILD MAGIC! With no in-game relevance, I am now a fighter 13/sorcerer 1 and my scaled cantrips from out of nowhere are SUHWEET.
- Warlock patrons should be controlled by the DM as to when they occur/could reasonably be encountered to acquire a devotee.
- MCing with a few closely-related classes excepted should be a Tarzan swing - abandoning one liana to move forward with a new one. I.e., a NEW career rather than a little side quest (nb level of pre-game assumed skill development to reach L1 in your original class).
But my sorceress magic is in her blood, why would she stop having it just because she has learned how to fight with weapons and wear armor? Or because she made a deal with an entity of dubious standing and morals?


Using the standard array 15,14,13,12,10,8 And knowing you need a 13 in both stats at least.
Barbarian Fighter Str 13
Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock 13
Cleric, Druid, wisdom 13
Fighter, Rogue, Dex 13
Wizard Int 13
Monk Ranger Dex and Wis 13
Paladin Str and Cha 13
Just how many classes can you multiclass into before you have to level up in a class to get a stat bump?

All of them but wizard. Every race gets a +1 or two that can be put anywhere so that gives at least four stats 13 and over, make them strength, dexterity, charisma and wisdom and you get all of the classes except wizard.
 
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Oofta

Legend
Pssh. It was 4E. Everyone cast spells, some of them just pretended they didn't. :p

Wow, it took a whole 11 minutes for someone to disagree with you. That must be a record.

Because my fighter definitely didn't cast spells. He just had an aura that did weapon damage. And could temporarily turn invisible. And force pull creatures to him so he could smack them around even if they didn't understand a word he said. Meanwhile my rogue buddy had an AOE blinding spell that used a single dagger as it's component that he threw at multiple enemies simultaneously.

But they were labeled "powers" so of course they weren't spells or supernatural in any way.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Wow, it took a whole 11 minutes for someone to disagree with you. That must be a record.
No one should have to. Factually false is factually false.

Because my fighter definitely didn't cast spells. He just had an aura that did weapon damage
No Pre-Essentials power created an aura, the power you're alluding to, Rain of Steel, was not an aura or a Zone - Dispel Magic would have had no effect on it.

And could temporarily turn invisible.
Anyone with stealth could gain the invisible tag. It just means you can't be seen, not that light is magically passing through you.
And force pull creatures to him so he could smack them around even if they didn't understand a word he said.
He didn't have to actually say a word, 'verbal components' were an implement thang, C&GI was a weapon power. You're confusing fluff with rules, the former is just an example, so it's up to the player to choose a fluff description that works for his vision of the character.

Or a different power, if he doesn't feel the mechanics fit whatcha wants his character to be able to do...

Meanwhile my rogue buddy had an AOE blinding spell that used a single dagger as it's component that he threw at multiple enemies simultaneously.
Factually false* again, Oofta, if you used a thrown weapon to attack more than one creature, you needed at least one weapon per target - or a magical thrown weapon.

But they were labeled "powers" so of course they weren't spells or supernatural in any way.
'Martial Exploits,' actually.

Only arcane powers were officially spells, though any PC power that wasn't martial or downright mundane was likely supernatural.










* If anyone's wondering about this odd phrasing, it's an artifact if the CoC, under which lying - even to the point if legal slander/libel, is OK, but calling someone who repeatedly says something that us provably false 'a liar' is just impolite. So I am politely pointing out that, after some 10 years Oofta has perhaps come to miss-remember the minutiae of weapon-keyword powers and weapon qualities and magic weapons and how all those apply to the rather over-the-top Rogue exploit, 'Blinding Barrage." Just like everything else in that last post.
 
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cbwjm

Seb-wejem
Only arcane powers were officially spells, though any PC power that wasn't martial or downright mundane was likely supernatural.

From memory, in the 4e PHB1 when explaining the martial power source it was called out as magical, just not in the traditional sense of casting spells so even the martial power source was supernatural.
 

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