I hate death saves. Propose your solution.

Old School 1 E
Dead at 0
Dead at -10
Dead at - con.
Old school 2E I heard of
Dead at - max hit points.
5E New School.
Dead at - 5. Or you pay me $20 to stabilize at 0. Hey Hey my wife has expensive hobbies I just dropped $399 on carbon wheels.
PS. the $20 is now currently activated. All players must paypal the money.
Hey. Just be I'm poor does not mean I not crazy.

Okay, so the goal is tension when a PC goes down... hmm.

How about this? If you fail a death save, you die. Adjust the success chance of death saves to suit your taste. (To approximate the lethality of the current system for an untended PC, death saves should succeed on a 5, but this might be insufficiently deadly for you.)

Optionally, you could also require the first death save upon being reduced to 0 hit points. As a DM, I would get more enjoyment watching the party scramble to get to the fallen PC before the dreaded d20 falls, so I wouldn't go that route, but it is an option.

I propose Life Saves. Roll a 10 or higher three times and you're stabilized.

Tbh i would not implement a dead at 0 or any dead at die roll event in my games that did not include time to intervene by others.

To me "joe is dead" does not generate challenge or drama during an encounter the way "Joe is dying and at death's door unless we save him" does.

Both carry the pathos of losing Joe or the cost of raising him after, but the death's doir adds to that the need to divert resources or actions pdq that affects the play of the fight.

I dislike direct dice to death results.

That said, if i were to implement 0 hp is dead, not sure what needs "solving". You want to apply direct dice to dead so, why mitigate that?

I would hope there were additional defensive and restorative options in play...

1 no crits for npcs hitting pcs (maybe none at all) this is not unheard of at all - letting crits be a pc thing. At the very least limit crits to "boss" npcs, not minions.

2 i like in general the idea of adding racial HD and background HD at first level so that PCs will start at three maxed HD. That gives them a higher degree of one shot or lucky shot proofing at tier 1 and will vanish into the background later.

3 perhaps the dodge maneuver should allow "spend reaction for half damage on any damage taken" to further enable a defensive shift to help protect you. Uncanny dodge still remains good as class feature since it does not require dodge.

4 perhaps spending inspiration could enable burning hd either at moment of 0 hp or during combat as a means for last gasp or come back.

5 i would definitely hope to allow spending hd in combat (or out) anytime you get healing done - to boost the healing received by burning your own HD resource without rests.

So, basically, to mitigate the hard dice driven cut off at zero, add all sorts of protections with bigger initial buffer and enhanced and empowered in combat preventative options.

While i do use some of these anyway, i still remain opposed to direct dice to dead mechanics so this is not endorsement, just suggestions.

FrogReaver said:

I did engage your solution. I mentioned not liking it. I even asked a couple of questions about the proposed solution and pointed out that I didn't like the death spiral it could cause. Heck when you clarified it was done for realism I even elaborated that realism wasn't a top concern.

Now you are saying I didn't engage, I didn't clarify. What the heck? I mean appreciate your proposal but it wasn't for me. Heck, apparently you got the Spirit of the thread on first read given your suggestion. Are you just sore that I didn't like the suggestion or dismissed it too quickly for your liking?

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You're right, I misspoke. You did engage with the idea I proposed. But when I asked for clarification on what you were looking for and the reason you didn't like Death Saves, that is where you refused to engage and told me don't worry about it. It seemed a bit defensive to me and I didn't really understand why that seemed like an off-limits aspect of the discussion.

But, that's neither here nor there since it seems that may have been resolved. Sorry if I said anything to offend or put you off, it wasn't my intention. I was really just looking for clarity to improve what I could contribute.

2 ideas:

1) You keep 3 chances at DTS, but each time the player rolls the d20 to save or not on its turn, he must spend an HD and roll it, on a successful save you add the the number to a pool and on a failed save you remove the amount shown on the HD roll. After 3 rolls, tally the total, if it brings you to over 0 HP (in this case we keep track of negative HP), you gain the exceeding amount as THP that last until the end of the fight, at which point you fall to 1 HP. If you do not have enough HD to make the three roll, each roll without an HD is considered a failed one.

2) Fight for your Life! mode ala Borderland. Death at 0 HP, but can spend Inspiration as a reaction to stay alive for Con mod rounds (minimum 1) with 1 HD worth of THP. You have until the that time to slay an enemy (by yourself) to regain HP equaling the enemy's HDs.

Dead at zero means you need to drastically increase the efficacy of in-combat healing and increase other healing resources. I'd allow the instant expenditure of hit dice by the recipient when healed by magical means within a relative limit. I'd say one hit die per level of spell.

Class features that heal utilizing static or semi-static pools (e.g. Second Wind, Lay On Hands, Wholeness of Body, etc) should probably double the static number. For instance, Second Wind would heal 1d10 + 2 * fighter level.

I'd likely allow expenditure of hit dice with healing potions using the following limits:


Other healing sources could be adjudicated on the fly, perhaps allowing 1 HD per 5 points of healing, or they simply don't allow for the option of extra healing.

Sources that provide temporary hit points should not be modified as their functional value is already dramatically increased by eliminating Death Saves.

Last but not least, I'd buff the Short Rest and Long Rest. Any hit dice spent during a Short Rest should automatically provide the maximum value to incentivise healing outside of combat. Change the Long Rest so it provides full recovery of all hit dice.

I like negative HPs

death at -10 HP as 3rd edition or maybe death at minus con score or con core+character level.

-1 HP per round if not stabilized/healed. Stabilization is con save vs DC20.

Any melee attack vs downed character is auto-crit. Ranged attacks within 10ft are autocrit also.

Ristamar said:

Dead at zero means you need to drastically increase the efficacy of in-combat healing and increase other healing resources. I'd allow the instant expenditure of hit dice by the recipient when healed by magical means within a relative limit. I'd say one hit die per level of spell.

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That sounds reasonable.
By the same token a 4e-style second wind: spend your action 1/encounter to roll HD and heal yourself, maybe with an additional requirement that you be wounded past a certain point?

FrogReaver said:

Looking forward to seeing your proposal

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Ok, sorry it took so long to post this, it was late and I needed to sleep. How about this:
When a PC drops to 0 hit points, they become Unstable. An Unstable character has disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks, and must maintain concentration (as if concentrating on a spell) or fall Unconscious, and must make a Con save to maintain concentration at the end of each turn at the highest DC of Concentration saves you’ve had to make while Unstable (so starting with the higher of 10 or half the damage that reduced you to 0.) Taking damage while Unstable does not cause automatic failure on the save, but does force a new concentration save just like when concentrating on a spell, and may increase the DC of your end of turn saves. An Unconscious and Unstable character must continue making saves as if maintaining concentration each turn, and dies on a failed save. Regaining any hit points removes the Unstable Condition, but not the Unconscious Condition. Allies can still remove the Unstable Condition with a Wisdom (Medicine) check as usual. Optionally, you may allow three successful concentration saves to remove the Unstable Condition.