Sacred Fist in Waterdeep: Future Subclass?

Paul Farquhar · Sep 18, 2018

As I see it the issue with Sacred Fist in 5e is it would very likely suffer from the same problems as the other caster monk: 4E. If you did it differently, so as not to suck, either with a spells per day table or a better Ki to spell conversion rate, you immediately highlight just how broken the 4E monk is.

And I don't see how you could do it a cleric domain. Domain of the Punching Fist doesn't seem right somehow.

Gradine · Sep 18, 2018

Domain of the Self:
Level 1: Proficiency in unarmed strikes, Monk damage table (or just straight 1d6)
Level 1: Unarmored Defense
Level 2: Channel Divinity: Divine Celerity: As an action, make an attack; you can also make two additional unarmed strikes as a bonus action.
Level 6: Unarmored speed boost (+10')
Level 8: Divine Strike (Radiant and/or Fire)
Level 17: Divine Aegis: Gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. If an effect would deal half damage to you as the result of a successful save, you instead take no damage.

Bonus Spells:
Level 1: Shield, Divine Favor
Level 2: Blur, See Invisibility
Level 3: Protection from Energy, Haste
Level 4: Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
Level 5: Greater Restoration, Farstep

Parmandur · Sep 18, 2018

A healing Monk subclass certainly seems possible, given that WotC design sees healing and damage as mathematically equivalent. So, maybe, but I wouldn't assume anything is around the corner because of some fluff.

Tales and Chronicles · Sep 19, 2018

To me the Sacred Fist would make for a great Paladin subclass.
Oath of Asceticism

Lvl 3: Oath spells
3: Longstrider, Jump
5: Prayer of Healing, Blur
9: Beacon of Hope, Haste
13: Guardian of Faith, Resilient Sphere
17: Hallow, Circle of Power

Channel Divinity:
Ascetic Armament: Bonus Action. For 10 minutes, attacks with simple weapons or unarmed attacks (which count as weapons attack as part of this feature) deal 1d8 damage instead of their usual damage. For the duration, the paladin can do an extra attack as a bonus action and gain their Cha mod to AC. The bonus is lost should the paladin wear armor heavier than light or use a shield.

Dawn Rebuke: Reaction. When an enemy attack an ally within 30', can force the attacker to Dex save or be Blinded for 1 minute. Should the attack still hit the ally, the enemy takes 2d8+Cha radiant damage.

Lvl 7: Divine Alacrity
Gain +10 speed

lvl 15: All-Seeing Vigilance
Cannot be surprised. Can see invisible and hidden creatures within aura.

lvl 20: Inner Armor
For 1 minute, can take the Dodge and Disengage action as a bonus action. You have Advantage against spells.

gyor · Sep 20, 2018

vincegetorix said:
To me the Sacred Fist would make for a great Paladin subclass.
Oath of Asceticism

Lvl 3: Oath spells
3: Longstrider, Jump
5: Prayer of Healing, Blur
9: Beacon of Hope, Haste
13: Guardian of Faith, Resilient Sphere
17: Hallow, Circle of Power

Channel Divinity:
Ascetic Armament: Bonus Action. For 10 minutes, attacks with simple weapons or unarmed attacks (which count as weapons attack as part of this feature) deal 1d8 damage instead of their usual damage. For the duration, the paladin can do an extra attack as a bonus action and gain their Cha mod to AC. The bonus is lost should the paladin wear armor heavier than light or use a shield.

Dawn Rebuke: Reaction. When an enemy attack an ally within 30', can force the attacker to Dex save or be Blinded for 1 minute. Should the attack still hit the ally, the enemy takes 2d8+Cha radiant damage.

Lvl 7: Divine Alacrity
Gain +10 speed

lvl 15: All-Seeing Vigilance
Cannot be surprised. Can see invisible and hidden creatures within aura.

lvl 20: Inner Armor
For 1 minute, can take the Dodge and Disengage action as a bonus action. You have Advantage against spells.

That is an interesting idea, not one I'd go with, but interesting.

Honest I think they will go monk, Sacred Fist never really went with Paladins.

I think it will be a 1/3 caster like Eldrich Knight, using cleric spells, be able to spend ki points on a special channel divinity when you fists deal fire and radiant damage, and a few other things.

Gladius Legis · Sep 20, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
As I see it the issue with Sacred Fist in 5e is it would very likely suffer from the same problems as the other caster monk: 4E. If you did it differently, so as not to suck, either with a spells per day table or a better Ki to spell conversion rate, you immediately highlight just how broken the 4E monk is.

And I don't see how you could do it a cleric domain. Domain of the Punching Fist doesn't seem right somehow.

The upcoming errata is supposedly addressing certain lackluster features, so maybe the 4E Monk will be given a better Ki to spell conversion rate, and then the Sacred Fist would be designed based off said rebalanced 4E Monk.

Parmandur · Sep 20, 2018

gyor said:
That is an interesting idea, not one I'd go with, but interesting.

Honest I think they will go monk, Sacred Fist never really went with Paladins.

I think it will be a 1/3 caster like Eldrich Knight, using cleric spells, be able to spend ki points on a special channel divinity when you fists deal fire and radiant damage, and a few other things.

Probably the best near comparison would be the Sun Soul, with a few targeted healing options instead of hadokens.

Parmandur · Sep 20, 2018

Gladius Legis said:
The upcoming errata is supposedly addressing certain lackluster features, so maybe the 4E Monk will be given a better Ki to spell conversion rate, and then the Sacred Fist would be designed based off said rebalanced 4E Monk.

Nope: somebody asked Mearls on Twitter if any changes were planned for the Four Elements Monk, and Mearls suggested they play the Sun Soul as no changes were forthcoming.

The Errata that Crawford mentioned seem to have to do with followers and animals that are befriended, not any class features.

gyor · Sep 20, 2018

Gladius Legis said:
The upcoming errata is supposedly addressing certain lackluster features, so maybe the 4E Monk will be given a better Ki to spell conversion rate, and then the Sacred Fist would be designed based off said rebalanced 4E Monk.

Honestly I don't find the 4 elements monk to be that bad, it's magic functions, like a minor multi class into Warlock. Never understood the dislike the subclass gets.

Parmandur · Sep 20, 2018

gyor said:
Honestly I don't find the 4 elements monk to be that bad, it's magic functions, like a minor multi class into Warlock. Never understood the dislike the subclass gets.

Based on what Mearls has said, it works mathematically, but the choices are frustrating and unclear for most players in practice. Hence why they view the Sun Soul as a decent facto replacement, for those who are unsatisfied.

Sacred Fist in Waterdeep: Future Subclass?

Paul Farquhar

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Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)

Parmandur

Book-Friend

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix

gyor

Legend

Gladius Legis

Legend

Parmandur

Book-Friend

Parmandur

Book-Friend

gyor

Legend

Parmandur

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