the Jester
Legend
I just realized that there is no detect/discern lie in 5e, which blows my mind.
Anyhow, I am running a 5e game that includes a pc who has a *ring of truth,* converted from the 1e version.
Okay, so first of all, here's the text of my conversion of the ring for reference:
Okay, so the question- which would apply to a converted version of the detect/discern lie spell, as well,, and would also apply in other editions- is this: If you think you're telling the truth but you aren't, is that a lie? How does such an item or spell react to someone unknowingly telling a lie?
For one (quick) example, let's say that I was raised by a couple who claimed I was their biological child, but I was actually adopted by them. (For clarity: hereafter I refer to them as my mom and dad.) If I say that my mom gave birth to me, that is untrue, but I believe it. How does that register?
Argument "No, it's not a lie" goes- I believe it to be true and intend to be truthful, so it isn't a lie.
Argument "Yes, it is a lie" goes- It's not true, so it's a lie.
Alternatively, you could argue that even though I don't know it's a lie, it is a lie; it is a lie that was told to me and that I unknowingly passed on in claiming my mom as the one who gave birth to me.
But the nuance can get strange here. What if my mom had an affair, and I am the biological child of her and the "other man"? And what if he never knew or suspected the affair and had never been lied to about my biological parentage by my mom?
I would love to get opinions on this.
Anyhow, I am running a 5e game that includes a pc who has a *ring of truth,* converted from the 1e version.
Okay, so first of all, here's the text of my conversion of the ring for reference:
the Jester's Magic Item Document said:
Okay, so the question- which would apply to a converted version of the detect/discern lie spell, as well,, and would also apply in other editions- is this: If you think you're telling the truth but you aren't, is that a lie? How does such an item or spell react to someone unknowingly telling a lie?
For one (quick) example, let's say that I was raised by a couple who claimed I was their biological child, but I was actually adopted by them. (For clarity: hereafter I refer to them as my mom and dad.) If I say that my mom gave birth to me, that is untrue, but I believe it. How does that register?
Argument "No, it's not a lie" goes- I believe it to be true and intend to be truthful, so it isn't a lie.
Argument "Yes, it is a lie" goes- It's not true, so it's a lie.
Alternatively, you could argue that even though I don't know it's a lie, it is a lie; it is a lie that was told to me and that I unknowingly passed on in claiming my mom as the one who gave birth to me.
But the nuance can get strange here. What if my mom had an affair, and I am the biological child of her and the "other man"? And what if he never knew or suspected the affair and had never been lied to about my biological parentage by my mom?
I would love to get opinions on this.
