Ravnica Table of Contents & More

Jester David said:

I do.
I value that sort of thing, and being able to populate a caravan with interesting items rather than just muttering “ummm it’s full of boxes of generic trade goods.” Knowing what a region produces and where it would sell well.

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I can appreciate that, as do I.

I was merely speaking to the idea that "WotC" doesn't have to provide for that level of detail for it to exist.

No worries, I see your point.

cbwjm said:

How much do you really need? It's a giant city covering an entire world, do you really need detailed locations for everywhere you might go?

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Everywhere is an hyberbole, but yeah, I need details. The reason the FR became so popular was that the Old Grey Box was a very lenghty and detailed sandbox. It was different from say DragonLance that was just too tied up with the novels. The OGB sparked imagination, some of the work was already for you and, more importantly, it gave you the desire to explore the setting.

Ravnica doesn't give a sandbox or a constrained setting. It just throws a few locations on the table and then says "Guilds!" over and over again.

Guilds are going to ware out fast, as people will find them restrictive and they generate conlict between players. The guilds elements will be left to the NPCs and eventually just abandonned cause it they will get repetitive. What will be left from this "settings" when the novelty of guilds will have worn out? Not even MtG iconic cards in D&D format.

SkidAce said:

You misunderstand.

If I am DMing, I will figure those things out.

If I am playing, the DM will figure those things out.

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You have a better imagination than me. Valuable settings give me suggestions and help spark my imagination to figure those things out. Sometimes it is a copy/pasta, sometimes it doesn't even resemble the original idea.

Jester David said:

I disagree.
Because you could procedurally generate Guilds as well. Heck, you can procedurally generate an entire setting. I have a 2nd Edition book dedicated to just that.

But that’s not what I want from a campaign setting. I want established lore that makes me want to use cool evocative locations. Iconic signature locations with ties to the history of the setting.
I want to read about an ancient cathedral with a mysterious pillar in the heart. A statue dedicated to an individual that appears in no history books. A famous inn built into the tower of a famous wizard. Stuff that gives me ideas for stories.

Random tables? Yaaaawwn.


I do.
I value that sort of thing, and being able to populate a caravan with interesting items rather than just muttering “ummm it’s full of boxes of generic trade goods.” Knowing what a region produces and where it would sell well.

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Any reason to think that might not be in here...? The book details the entire geography of the setting as exists in the fiction, which is about 20 pages worth. Beyond that, the unique nature of the Guilds is the actual point. It might not be what you are looking for, but it is what it is. The institutions are the setting, not places.

Kramodlog said:

Everywhere is an hyberbole, but yeah, I need details. The reason the FR became so popular was that the Old Grey Box was a very lenghty and detailed sandbox. It was different from say DragonLance that was just too tied up with the novels. The OGB sparked imagination, some of the work was already for you and, more importantly, it gave you the desire to explore the setting.

Ravnica doesn't give a sandbox or a constrained setting. It just throws a few locations on the table and then says "Guilds!" over and over again.

Guilds are going to ware out fast, as people will find them restrictive and they generate conlict between players. The guilds elements will be left to the NPCs and eventually just abandonned cause it they will get repetitive. What will be left from this "settings" when the novelty of guilds will have worn out? Not even MtG iconic cards in D&D format.

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There are plenty of unique locations in Ravnica. Guild HQ, various districts holy places of the various guilds, military academies, places where magic is taught. The 10th district is getting a detailed map. Tons of locations are in the 10th district, Zonuts, libraries, guildhalls, run down areas, Guildgates, Wojek Centre Forte, and more, and I think the Guildhalls get maps too. Plus rubble belts will likely get a call out in the Gruul section. Old Ravnica is discussed. They might mention the shocklands, I don't know.

Seriously look at the wiki and Ravnica cards for locations that might appear in the book. Plus we might get new ones too. There are six wards basically mentioned + Old Ravnica.

Parmandur said:

Any reason to think that might not be in here...? The book details the entire geography of the setting as exists in the fiction, which is about 20 pages worth. Beyond that, the unique nature of the Guilds is the actual point. It might not be what you are looking for, but it is what it is. The institutions are the setting, not places.

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It's both and they are tied to each other.

Kramodlog said:

Yes, I know. It is a D&D product that adapts MtG material as it is advertized. Yet the MtG content is lacking. It just containt guilds that will be forgotten soon. This book is a missed opportunity to enrich D&D and player experience with MtG iconic spells, magical items, monsters, NPCs and location. Just like how D&D IP turned into MtG cards would enrich MtG.

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It has all of those things (except Planeswalkers), it'd be nice if it had more, so I agree with you there. But distinct MtG monsters will be in like Thrulls, Felidar, Archons, MtG style Angels, Demons, Wurms, Elementals, Weirds, and so on will be in the book. Truth be told a lot of D&D creatures and Spells can already be found in MtG and the other way around. We also get some magic items. A couple of spells (and possiblably altered and refluffed spells).

What creatures, spells, items, in particular would you have liked to see in Ravnica?

gyor said:

It's both and they are tied to each other.

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While true, the Guilds are more important than geography: there are no nation's, cities or institutions outside of the Guildpact.

I want to preface this lore dump by saying it is based on what I remember of the first set of books and some of the R&D design background. It has been many years and I am too tired to dig out the books to reference. Plus time has progressed since then.

In the beginning the forces of order and chaos warred across the plane. When it became apparent there would be nothing left one person convinced the most powerful leaders on both sides to agree to a magical contract that will ensure safety to the plane while still leaving room for their own beliefs. This was called the Guildpact and anchored the magic and structure of the society and plane at large, while cutting it off from the rest of the multiverse in the name of protection (as a side effect ghosts linger here more often than almost anywhere else).

Each leader became the head of Guild in charge of vital duties as stated in the Guildpact.

The Azorius Senate became the embodiment of the letter of the Guildpact, they interpret and judge the law of the realm. They are the legislators and judges, the record keepers and to a lesser extent investigators. The create the laws of the world and sit in judgement over the law and the Pact.

The Boros Legion was tasked to protect the plane, led by the angels they became the military and police force, bringing breakers of the laws before the Azorius judges and protecting the people from major threats. They are rigid and regimented and not above the use of force if that is what it takes to preserve the peace.

The Golgari Swarm was tasked to feed the people. The dark elves and monstrous races (referred to as Teratogens) took to the lower levels of the city, masters of necromancy they use zombies (mostly sentient) to harvest huge fields of fungi and rot-grown food to feed the needy. Their understreets are dark, dank and dangerous because there they may hunt freely.

The Gruul Clans are the guardians of nature, tasked to ensure progress and civilization doesn't overtake all the wild places of the world. They gather in the abandoned areas, the reclamation districts and the dangerous edges of civilized space, working with and respecting the beasts that lurk where people no longer tread. As civilization took over more and more of the plane the tribes splintered and many of them now just work to destroy the trappings of civilization where they can.

The House Dimir is not to be mentioned, by dictate of the Guildpact. This group of spies, saboteurs and assassins pick at the Guildpact from the edges, built from the principal that something untested will weaken. They are dictated to break the Guildpact so the remaining forces must be vigilant to its maintenance and keep it strong.

The Izzet League is tasked to create and maintain the infrastructure of the city. They invent new technologies and magic, creating ducts and plumbing for water, heat and magic as well as designing roads and buildings. They are also masters of demolition and responsible for most major magical research mishaps (the slogan of their observation corps is "Die Trying"). Their labs are always busy, and often exploding. It is rumored they sometimes weave spells into the very layout of the city.

The Orzhov Syndicate is to protect the people from the law. The "Guild of Deals" provides the lawyers to the Azorius judges and hold sway over all forms of contracts and offer protection and insurance to the business interests throughout the plane. Their members strive to be worthy to join the ghost council that rules the guild upon their death. They live lush and opulent lives with many servants to do their bidding.

The Cult of Rakdos forms the backbone of manual labor and provides an outlet for the stresses of life. A group of hedonists who work hard and play hard they provide hard physical service from labor to murder and have wild carnivals that can cater to any taste, no matter how depraved. If you're in a neighborhood that seems dark, hot and weirdly full of spikes and barbs, you might be in Rakdos territory.

If the Azorious are the letter of the law the Selesnya Conclave is its spirit. They embrace the unity of all beings being connected and seek to fulfill the spiritual needs of the world. Their progenitor lives encased in the great Life Tree in the center of the capitol connecting all beings who care to work for the benefit of all.

The Simic Combine are meant to care for the bodies of the people. Masters of Biomancy they invent great cures to plagues and injury as well as creating new creatures to aid in life and improve the bodies of those who wish it, though their mistakes (and sometimes their intentions) create many of the worst beasts and diseases that plague the world.

The world itself has been built up then built over. Layers and layers of history are built, toppled, demolished and built again. The entire plane is a continual construction project as locations wear out and change ownership. Frequently large districts are abandoned due to one disaster or another, often dangerous virulent plagues that leave the are uninhabited and quarantined for centuries to ensure such diseases die out, which creates opportunity for whoever holds the contract to resettle it.

Built into the Guildpact is a cycle of constant interdependence and struggles for advantage between the Guilds with balance constantly shifting, causing constant intrigue and low-level strife but preventing too much devastation, except for the occasional riot when the demon Rakdos gets too restless and leaves his home and base of operations in the lava pit Rix Maadi.


I hope that gives people a rough start, it isn't as comprehensive as I intended (I am tired and becoming increasingly incoherent, you should see all the edits I made while writing what little this is), I might do another dump based on questions later this week, most likely on my day off.

I will say I tend to love to play with the Lore of any system I am playing with and of the 4 or 5 Magic settings I know anything about Ravnica was my favorite. Which is part of why I am interested in seeing how they take the ideas and lore of the setting and translate it to a system where they are freed from the requirements of the original game's mechanical systems (and of course have new ones to work within).

Feel free to ask more questions or bring up things that you would like more detail on, I will be happy to try to help, as long as we all go in knowing I do not work for or represent WotC and like everyone else have no idea what translated into the actual book, just enjoy fantasy worlds.

Parmandur said:

The Guilds themselves, as narrative entities, are what holds interest in the setting: all locations on the planet are related to and mainly controlled by them. Check out the Lore videos, I think it is the identities of the Guilds that you are not looking at here. The Magic rules elements are interesting in that they allowed for the creation of very different than normal archetypes, sure h as the ghost-controlled Bank-Church of the Orzhav Syndacite, or the Gulgari.

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Ok, so I did some more reading, and I can't say the guilds hold my interest. They're the major players, the major selling point of Ravnica... and they feel generic. Like, they don't really feel like they play with the tropes they were assigned, and instead just are what they say on the tin. Sure, they double as performing civic duties to the city, but that's about it. The only one that got me to raise my eyebrow was the idea of a Holy Order as serving as the central bank, but then I realized that's actually pretty common in real world conspiracy theories.

I guess that really settles it. If the guilds don't excite me, the book appears to shy away from detailing the ramifications of being set in an ecumopolis (nevermind that I feel ecumopolis settings actually dilute the appeal of an Urban location), and the book doesn't really seem to have any thematic elements that sing out to me...

The setting is just not for me. Pity.