Mythological Figures: Conan the Barbarian (5E)

WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE? Click here to find out! This week's Mythological Figure is one sure to generate a lot of discussion, as we delve into Conan the Barbabarian!

WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE? Click here to find out! This week's Mythological Figure is one sure to generate a lot of discussion, as we delve into Conan the Barbabarian!



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If by some strange chance you are not already familiar with this wildly popular character my first recommendation is to check out any of the Conan the Barbarian films (starring Arnold Schwarzenegger), but there’s also a Conan RPG from Modiphius and a relatively recent Conan video game. I’m not going to summarize his history -- as far as I’m able to tell there are at least 13 different public domain works featuring Conan.

If you read this column for the context this just isn’t your week but for the stat junkies, behold!

Design Notes: Conan here is one of the most hotly contested character builds for fantasy RPGs. It’s opinions, @$$#%^&$, and Conan builds out here: everybody has one. At one point or another I ran across a rationale I thought was pretty good and made a comment in my working document about it. If you are the person who posted this on Facebook or elsewhere on EN World or wherever it is I saw it, thank you:

“First thing - no more than 1 level of Barbarian class. Barbarians from Hyboria aren't D&D Barbarians. You just need it to reflect that he was formidabble even without any armour. So Barbarian 1 and no more. Second thing - Ranger 1. Conan was good tracker and knew how to take care of himself in the wilderness, his favoured enemies should be humans and human-abomination hybrids. Third - Rouge 3 with Thief Roguish Archetype. He spent a lot of time as ordinary thief. Rest should go to Fighter with Champion as Martial Archetype as Conan was more interested in crushing his enemies (and seeing them driven before him) as quickly and effectively as possible.”

For his Challenge Rating I erred on the side of caution and rounded up to 9 because he’s got a ton of features, can leap like a monster, and has incredible mobility (and if you are going to cry fowl about needing a higher Strength or Constitution, drop Mobility and increase one or the other by +2).



Conan the Barbarian
Medium humanoid (human), neutral barbarian 1/ranger 1/rogue (thief) 3/fighter 11 (champion)

Armor Class
14 (hide)
Hit Points 118 (1d12+12d10+3d8+32)
Speed 40 ft.

STR
DEX
CON
INT
WIS
CHA
18 (+4)​
14 (+2)​
14 (+2)​
12 (+1)​
13 (+1)​
10 (+0)​

Saving Throws
Str +9, Con +7
Skills Athletics +14, Intimidation +5, Sleight of Hand +7, Stealth +12, Survival +6; disguise kit +5, thieves’ tools +5
Senses passive Perception 11
Languages Common, Thieves’ Cant
Challenge 9 (5,000 XP)

Background: Guttersnipe - Urban Knowledge. Conan and his allies (while outside of combat) move at double their normal speed when traveling between two locations in the same city.

Action Surge (1/Short Rest). Once on his turn, Conan can take an additional action on top of his regular action and a possible bonus action.

Cunning Action (1/Turn). Conan can take a bonus action to take the Dash, Disengage, Hide or Use Object action, Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, or to use thieves’ tools to disarm a trap or open a lock.

Favored Enemy. Conan has advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track humans and human-abomination hybrids, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.

Feat: Mobile. Conan can Dash through difficult terrain without requiring additional movement. Whenever he makes an attack against a creature, he doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks from that creature until the end of his turn.

Feat: Power Attack. When Conan makes his first melee weapon attack in a turn, he can choose to take a -5 penalty to his melee weapon attack rolls in exchange for a +10 bonus to melee weapon damage. In addition, Conan can use a bonus action to make one melee weapon attack after he uses a melee weapon to reduce a creature to 0 hit points or scores a critical hit with it. Conan can only use this feature on his turn.

Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting. When Conan rolls a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack he makes with a melee weapon that he is wielding with two hands, he can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for Conan to gain this benefit.

Indomitable (1/Long Rest). Conan can reroll a saving throw that he fails but must use the new roll.

Natural Explorer: Mountains. When Conan makes an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to the forest, his proficiency bonus (+5) is doubled if he is using a skill that he’s proficient in. While traveling for an hour or more in his favored terrain, Conan gains the following benefits:

  • Difficult terrain doesn’t slow his group’s travel.
  • Conan’s group can’t become lost except by magical means.
  • Even when he is engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), Conan remains alert to danger.
  • If Conan is traveling alone, he can move stealthily at a normal pace.
  • When he forages, Conan finds twice as much food as he normally would.
  • While tracking other creatures, Conan also learns their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.

Rage (2/Long Rest). On his turn, Conan can enter a rage as a bonus action. His rage lasts for 1 minute, ending early if he is knocked unconscious or if his turn ends and he hasn’t either attacked a hostile creature since his last turn or taken damage since then. Conan can also end his rage on his turn as a bonus action. While raging, he gains the following benefits.

  • Conan has advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
  • When Conan makes a melee weapon attack using Strength, he deals 2 extra damage.
  • Conan has resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.

Remarkable Athlete. Conan adds +2 to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check he makes that doesn’t already use his proficiency bonus. In addition, when he makes a running long jump, the distance he can cover increases by 4 feet.

Second-Story Work. Climbing does not cost Conan extra movement. When he makes a running jump, the distance he covers increases by 2 feet (with Remarkable Athlete, 6 feet).

Second Wind (1/Short Rest). On his turn, Conan can use a bonus action to regain 1d10+11 hit points.

Sneak Attack (1/Turn). Conan deals an extra 7 (2d6) damage when he hits a target with a weapon attack and has advantage on the attack roll, or when the target is within 5 feet of an ally of Conan that isn’t incapacitated and Conan doesn’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.


ACTIONS

Multiattack. Conan attacks three times.

Greatsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6+4) slashing damage.

Dagger (4). Melee or Ranged Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft. or range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d4+4) piercing damage.

Longbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, range 150/600 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) piercing damage.
 

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Mike Myler

Mike Myler


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Guest 6801328

Guest
Huh? Unless I'm misremembering badly, REH wrote Hour of the Dragon. He was hoping to break into the British market. (But his would-be publisher went broke.)

Yes, you are 100% right. Momentary brain fart there.
 

squibbles

Adventurer
I think there's not enough of awareness of how a ruleset...not the fluff, but the actual underlying mechanics...can either reinforce or hinder the flavor of a setting. This is just a fun thought experiment, I get that, but in general I don't think the community has high enough expectations, in this regard, from the publishers. I think it was a huge mistake and lost opportunity for Modiphius to recycle 2d20 for the Conan game (even though that's their MO). MERP and ICE's "Law" based rules were always a terrible fit for Middle Earth. GURPS was, in retrospect, a misguided idea. And as much as I like playing D&D 5e, I don't agree with porting it to every genre and setting.

I get your point, and generally agree with you. However, I have been surprised by this thread in that it has made me realize how easy it would be to create a really good Conan (and Hyborean age) with the 5e ruleset. Just a few minor tweaks (similar in style to AiME I'm thinking) and I think you could capture the feel of both (at least for me).

I realize this is derailing the thread a bit but, as I intend to run a game in a Hyborian-esque sword and sorcery world, I'd like to inquire further about the mechanics of the 5e ruleset that are a problem for sword and sorcery (apart from the high magic stuff, obviously).

How would 5e's mechanics hinder the flavor of such a setting?

What tweaks would be necessary to capture the right feel?

I've read AiME, Mophidiums Conan, Primeval Thule, etc.
 

dave2008

Legend
I realize this is derailing the thread a bit but, as I intend to run a game in a Hyborian-esque sword and sorcery world, I'd like to inquire further about the mechanics of the 5e ruleset that are a problem for sword and sorcery (apart from the high magic stuff, obviously).

How would 5e's mechanics hinder the flavor of such a setting?

What tweaks would be necessary to capture the right feel?

I've read AiME, Mophidiums Conan, Primeval Thule, etc.

I haven't put a lot of thought into it, but I would start with:

1) level cap: at least 10, maybe lower. Keeps hit points and magic low. I would also couple this with slower advancement.
2) minions: almost all opponents are CR 1 or below
3) magic: I would probably do away with cantrips, or at least attack cantrips. I would also look at increasing casting time and/or moving higher level spells to rituals. Possibly spell failure from damage (if you take damage before you cast a spell in a round you make a concentration check or you can't cast a spell that round - or something similar)
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
When I think of Conan I'm thinking of REH's depiction.

He has might thews - high STR. He is quick like a cat/panther - high DEX. He is never surprised - high WIS. He seduces practically every woman he meets, he befriends Pelias (the wizard he meets in The Scarelt Citadel) straight away, and his soldiers, vassals etc are extremely loyal - high CHA. He survives crucifixion - high CON. The only one of his stats that is not obviously superlative is INT.

Conan is canny, but I think the Alert feat does the job preventing surprise perfectly well and Resilient(Wis) would also help with the whole "resisting domination and/or beguiling". He often gets himself in other trouble, certainly with money and women, so I'm not entirely sure I'd say he's got a demonstrably high overall Wis, just not bad. But I agree, the others are definitely pretty rocked.


In the 5e context this can't be done for a PC without (imputed) rolling, but presumalby is permissible for a NPC. The point buy rules are for balance among players, not a model of human attributes within the setting.

Agreed. IMO the big problem 5E has is that he'd run out of feats if he's also paying for ASIs because he pretty clearly has Alert and likely has Great Weapon Master and Athlete, too. Fighter levels helps with that, though, or you can give him Scout Rogue for a really rocked Athletics due to expertise.

But assuming he starts with high stats, I think a Berserker Barbarian/Samurai or Champion Fighter/Scout Rogue does a pretty reasonable job.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I realize this is derailing the thread a bit but, as I intend to run a game in a Hyborian-esque sword and sorcery world, I'd like to inquire further about the mechanics of the 5e ruleset that are a problem for sword and sorcery (apart from the high magic stuff, obviously).

How would 5e's mechanics hinder the flavor of such a setting?

What tweaks would be necessary to capture the right feel?

I've read AiME, Mophidiums Conan, Primeval Thule, etc.

Here are some thoughts:

  • Most casting classes would need to go. This is particularly true for attack cantrips. Furthermore, I'd likely make most casters Warlocks. A cantrip like Vicious Mockery fits fairly well and could likely be generalized to other effects, though. Warlocks do a good job of simulating many different kinds of magic but in a situation where it's fairly rare and limited.
  • Most, though not all, spells would need to be rituals and in general magic is a corrupting thing so there should be some notable cost to using magic. Reskinning goes a long way, though: So fireball might be something that happens due to Alchemy.
  • I'd seriously consider making most PC casters half caster types at best.
  • Fast travel and other "ignore the world" pretty much has to go.
  • I'd seriously consider using Sanity rules or some kind of Corruption points.
  • Most magic items would be McGuffins, not loot for the PCs. However, the upper tiers of gear would generally not be available broadly, so many foes would be working with weapons that do D6 and have ACs that are only middling. That would mean that the upper tier of mundane gear would be very valued by the PCs.
  • Fast healing is an issue and requires some thought. AIME allows for short rests but generally requires long rests to be done in a "sanctuary" and thus aren't typically available on an adventure. This really changes the feel in a gritty direction and makes hit dice super valuable. Hyborean Age might actually feel more reasonable with the "all better after a night's rest, especially if it involves shagging a hottie" though, but adventures should be written to press the PCs pretty hard and I'd overall be very wary of most fast healing, especially when controlled by the PCs. One way to allow it, though, would be via temporary hit points, which are limited due to not stacking and are, well, temporary. Thus a healing elixir of some sort that provides THP feels much more in genre.
  • Other folks have said you need a level cap. I don't agree with that but in general, most foes would be fairly weak because the big force multipliers in the form of area effect and other control magic will be limited and the campaign should focus on the lower to middle end of the power spectrum. People over on the AIME forum did some calculations and figured out that Gimli and Legolas work out pretty nicely as about 13th level warriors (aka fighters in AIME) based on their deeds in Helm's Deep. That feels like an appropriate upper end of action for a Hyborean game. If you want to challenge a really high level character, limiting rests would definitely help, though.
  • One idea from Modiphius Conan I think is pretty cool is to have gear be sacrificed to avoid a crit, possibly as a reaction. This helps generate the churn of gear that S&S or grittier type genres have, where shields get broken, swords get ruined parrying. It gives the PCs a bit more survivability and helps reinforce the genre.
  • 5E, like all D&D, is very much built around niche protection and assumes a party of five. Hyborean type adventures tend to have more broadly competent PCs and fewer of them. I'd consider giving some extra feats of selected type. These would be Linguist, Skilled, etc., so not powerhouse type things but ones that reflect the fact that Hyborean characters become very broad from all their travels.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mike Myler

Have you been to LevelUp5E.com yet?
I realize this is derailing the thread a bit but, as I intend to run a game in a Hyborian-esque sword and sorcery world, I'd like to inquire further about the mechanics of the 5e ruleset that are a problem for sword and sorcery (apart from the high magic stuff, obviously).

How would 5e's mechanics hinder the flavor of such a setting?

What tweaks would be necessary to capture the right feel?

I've read AiME, Mophidiums Conan, Primeval Thule, etc.

Boop --> https://mikemyler.com/2018/02/11/dd-5e-in-ancient-greece-the-new-argonauts-5e-conversion/
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Here are some thoughts:

  • Most casting classes would need to go. This is particularly true for attack cantrips. Furthermore, I'd likely make most casters Warlocks. A cantrip like Vicious Mockery fits fairly well and could likely be generalized to other effects, though. Warlocks do a good job of simulating many different kinds of magic but in a situation where it's fairly rare and limited.
  • Most, though not all, spells would need to be rituals and in general magic is a corrupting thing so there should be some notable cost to using magic. Reskinning goes a long way, though: So fireball might be something that happens due to Alchemy.
  • I'd seriously consider making most PC casters half caster types at best.
  • Fast travel and other "ignore the world" pretty much has to go.
  • I'd seriously consider using Sanity rules or some kind of Corruption points.
  • Most magic items would be McGuffins, not loot for the PCs. However, the upper tiers of gear would generally not be available broadly, so many foes would be working with weapons that do D6 and have ACs that are only middling. That would mean that the upper tier of mundane gear would be very valued by the PCs.
  • Fast healing is an issue. AIME allows for short rests but generally requires long rests to be done in a "sanctuary" and thus aren't typically available on an adventure. This really changes the feel in a gritty direction and makes hit dice super valuable.
  • Other folks have said you need a level cap. I don't agree with that but in general, most foes would be fairly weak because the big levelers in the form of area effect and other control magic and the campaign should focus on the lower to middle end of the power spectrum. People over on the AIME forum did some calculations and figured out that Gimli and Legolas work out pretty nicely as about 13th level warriors (aka fighters in AIME) based on their deeds in Helm's Deep. That feels like an appropriate upper end of action for a Hyborean game. If you want to challenge a really high level character, limiting rests would definitely help, though.
  • One idea from Modiphius Conan I think is pretty cool is to have gear be sacrificed to avoid a crit. This helps generate the churn of gear that S&S or grittier type genres have, where shields get broken, swords get ruined parrying. It gives the PCs a bit more survivability and helps reinforce the genre.
  • 5E, like all D&D, is very much built around niche protection and assumes a party of five. Hyborean type adventures tend to have more broadly competent PCs and fewer. I'd consider giving some extra feats of selected type. These would be Linguist, Skilled, etc., so not powerhouse type things but ones that reflect the fact that Hyborean characters become very broad from all their travels.

Solid. I've mused a bit before about an Iron Heroes style 5e variant for low magic settings, that would offer more variety of no-spellcasting classes.
 


squibbles

Adventurer

Summary for those who didn't follow the link: humans only but with some quasi-magical sub-race features, 4 classes (barbarian, fighter, rogue, modified warlock), modified spell list, lots of classical Greece specific feats and equipment (no heavy armor).

I haven't put a lot of thought into it, but I would start with:

1) level cap: at least 10, maybe lower. Keeps hit points and magic low. I would also couple this with slower advancement.
2) minions: almost all opponents are CR 1 or below
3) magic: I would probably do away with cantrips, or at least attack cantrips. I would also look at increasing casting time and/or moving higher level spells to rituals. Possibly spell failure from damage (if you take damage before you cast a spell in a round you make a concentration check or you can't cast a spell that round - or something similar)

Here are some thoughts:

  • Most casting classes would need to go. This is particularly true for attack cantrips. Furthermore, I'd likely make most casters Warlocks. A cantrip like Vicious Mockery fits fairly well and could likely be generalized to other effects, though. Warlocks do a good job of simulating many different kinds of magic but in a situation where it's fairly rare and limited.
  • Most, though not all, spells would need to be rituals and in general magic is a corrupting thing so there should be some notable cost to using magic. Reskinning goes a long way, though: So fireball might be something that happens due to Alchemy.
  • I'd seriously consider making most PC casters half caster types at best.
  • Fast travel and other "ignore the world" pretty much has to go.
  • I'd seriously consider using Sanity rules or some kind of Corruption points.
  • Most magic items would be McGuffins, not loot for the PCs. However, the upper tiers of gear would generally not be available broadly, so many foes would be working with weapons that do D6 and have ACs that are only middling. That would mean that the upper tier of mundane gear would be very valued by the PCs.
  • Fast healing is an issue and requires some thought. AIME allows for short rests but generally requires long rests to be done in a "sanctuary" and thus aren't typically available on an adventure. This really changes the feel in a gritty direction and makes hit dice super valuable. Hyborean Age might actually feel more reasonable with the "all better after a night's rest, especially if it involves shagging a hottie" though, but adventures should be written to press the PCs pretty hard and I'd overall be very wary of most fast healing, especially when controlled by the PCs. One way to allow it, though, would be via temporary hit points, which are limited due to not stacking and are, well, temporary. Thus a healing elixir of some sort that provides THP feels much more in genre.
  • Other folks have said you need a level cap. I don't agree with that but in general, most foes would be fairly weak because the big force multipliers in the form of area effect and other control magic will be limited and the campaign should focus on the lower to middle end of the power spectrum. People over on the AIME forum did some calculations and figured out that Gimli and Legolas work out pretty nicely as about 13th level warriors (aka fighters in AIME) based on their deeds in Helm's Deep. That feels like an appropriate upper end of action for a Hyborean game. If you want to challenge a really high level character, limiting rests would definitely help, though.
  • One idea from Modiphius Conan I think is pretty cool is to have gear be sacrificed to avoid a crit, possibly as a reaction. This helps generate the churn of gear that S&S or grittier type genres have, where shields get broken, swords get ruined parrying. It gives the PCs a bit more survivability and helps reinforce the genre.
  • 5E, like all D&D, is very much built around niche protection and assumes a party of five. Hyborean type adventures tend to have more broadly competent PCs and fewer of them. I'd consider giving some extra feats of selected type. These would be Linguist, Skilled, etc., so not powerhouse type things but ones that reflect the fact that Hyborean characters become very broad from all their travels.

I arrived at broadly similar conclusions, i.e.
  • Gut the casting classes and spell list, especially cantrips, maybe don't cut Warlocks
  • Refluff the spells that remain, change a bunch to rituals, add more risk/reward to them
  • Make the gear less magic and lower tech
  • Change the way healing works--though there are differing views on how
  • Maybe impose a level cap or, at least, spend more time at low levels
I'm wondering, reflecting on Elfcrusher's comment that mechanics reinforce or hinder a setting's flavor, whether 5e's design staples--D20 resolution, bounded accuracy, HP, casting spells from slots, resources that recover with rest, etc.--make for an inherently non-Hyborian feeling game. Scale back the magic is a pretty straightforward solution, do you think it works appreciably?

2) minions: almost all opponents are CR 1 or below
Yeah, that's an interesting thought. Throw mobs of low CR stuff at the party (since they likely lack magical crowd control), season with an occasional deadly monster.

One idea from Modiphius Conan I think is pretty cool is to have gear be sacrificed to avoid a crit, possibly as a reaction. This helps generate the churn of gear that S&S or grittier type genres have, where shields get broken, swords get ruined parrying. It gives the PCs a bit more survivability and helps reinforce the genre.
This reminds me of the OSR's 'shields shall be splintered' rule. I can see it having a significant effect on the game's feel.

5E, like all D&D, is very much built around niche protection and assumes a party of five. Hyborean type adventures tend to have more broadly competent PCs and fewer of them. I'd consider giving some extra feats of selected type. These would be Linguist, Skilled, etc., so not powerhouse type things but ones that reflect the fact that Hyborean characters become very broad from all their travels.
I haven't seen this suggested before, but it makes a lot of sense; favor smaller parties and give each PC a broader skillset. I think it would make the game feel more HYborian.

I've mused a bit before about an Iron Heroes style 5e variant for low magic settings, that would offer more variety of no-spellcasting classes.
IIRC Iron Heroes didn't use hit points, but a bunch of injury levels (5ish) on a sliding scale between healthy and dead, with PCs rolling each time they got hit to see if they descended down the scale. Its a pretty radical departure from normal combat resolution, but I've never played with it. How does that work in practice?

I'll stop hijacking the topic after this, honest ;)
 

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