Random "table" with an inbuilt memory ... (sort of)

GHench · Oct 29, 2018

I had this idea about building a simple, versatile and useful 'game engine' based on 19-Hex Flower and a 2D6 navigation mechanic.

It's like a random table, but with an inbuilt memory.

I blogged about it here:
https://goblinshenchman.wordpress.com/2018/10/25/2d6-hex-power-flower/

I've had some useful input in the past and so would be interested in your comments!!
:O)

Bawylie · Oct 29, 2018

I read it and I don’t understand it. Sorry.

Lanefan · Oct 29, 2018

Bawylie said:
I read it and I don’t understand it. Sorry.

I think I see what's being done there. The whole thing is just a random table but with a built-in trending mechanism, allowing some variability in the odds of sooner or later landing on a particular outcome.

For any individual application by itself it's probably easier just to bang out a weighted d% chart and have done with it. The utility here is that - assuming you've got 19 or fewer possible outcomes - you can easily plug any set of outcomes into the same matrix. He shows this flexibility by all the different examples he gives - town reactions, volcanic eruptions, tree trunks, etc.

The other utility here - and this one's far more interesting to me - is that from any particular hex you can only go to 6 other hexes, further reinforcing the "trend" idea: what's happening now somewhat determines the options for what happens next. One real-world example where this is the case is weather, and I could see using something like this to generate a trending-randomized weather matrix for somewhere in a game world. EDIT TO ADD: The one change I'd make in general would be to add a 7th option: the status quo, where you stay in the same hex. This could be done using his 2d6 model by saying that if you roll doubles other than double 1 or double 6 you stay put.

Another variable could be the strength of trend. Instead of using 2d6 you could use, say, 2d8 to make the trend stronger UP = 2, UP-RIGHT = 3-4, DOWN-RIGHT = 5-6-7, DOWN = 8-9-10-11, DOWN-LEFT = 12-13-14, UP-LEFT = 15-16, or 1d8 to increase the randomization (1, 2, 3, 4-5, 6-7, 8).

Yet a further variable is one's choice of start point. In many cases I could see this just being done at complete random, for ease and simplicity.

And if you really want to go nutballs crazy you could increase the "flower" size (i.e. add more hexes), so there's more room to move within a trend before jumping across the whole chart.

Bawylie · Oct 29, 2018

Isn’t that a LOT of prep for a weighted probability chart? And even then just one chart per scenario.

Lanefan · Oct 29, 2018

Bawylie said:
Isn’t that a LOT of prep for a weighted probability chart? And even then just one chart per scenario.

It probably would be; but if it's something you're going to use repeatedly for the long term e.g. a weather matrix you can port from campaign to campaign, it's work that only has to be done once.

Also, any sort of random table where the current state affects the odds regarding what state comes (or is even able to come) next is going to be a female-dog to set up no matter how you do it.

Bawylie · Oct 29, 2018

Lanefan said:
It probably would be; but if it's something you're going to use repeatedly for the long term e.g. a weather matrix you can port from campaign to campaign, it's work that only has to be done once.

Also, any sort of random table where the current state affects the odds regarding what state comes (or is even able to come) next is going to be a female-dog to set up no matter how you do it.

No, I’ve got a simple one. Roll a d6.
On a 1 - things get worse.
On a 2-4 - things stay about the same.
On a 5 - things get better.
On a 6 - things get a lot better.

I could probably refine this down to a d4, tbh, but I prefer d6s to d4s.

Lanefan · Oct 29, 2018

Bawylie said:
No, I’ve got a simple one. Roll a d6.
On a 1 - things get worse.
On a 2-4 - things stay about the same.
On a 5 - things get better.
On a 6 - things get a lot better.

I could probably refine this down to a d4, tbh, but I prefer d6s to d4s.

OK. Now do this but make it such that the current state (as determined by whatever the last roll was) influences the odds on the next roll. It quickly starts to get messy: you now need a different table for each possible current state; and while in a simple 4-outcome example like yours this admittedly isn't that hard, in a more granular situation - even, say, 10 or 15 possible outcomes - that hex matrix quickly starts looking pretty good.

Bawylie · Oct 29, 2018

Lanefan said:
OK. Now do this but make it such that the current state (as determined by whatever the last roll was) influences the odds on the next roll. It quickly starts to get messy: you now need a different table for each possible current state; and while in a simple 4-outcome example like yours this admittedly isn't that hard, in a more granular situation - even, say, 10 or 15 possible outcomes - that hex matrix quickly starts looking pretty good.

I see your point re complexity and have follow-up questions:

1.) why would the current state need to modify the roll to determine the new state?
2.) why would I want to bother with 10-15 possible outcomes when the usual number is 2 and a sufficiently complex number is 4?

I guess one real question: what do I get out of doing that?

GHench · Oct 29, 2018

Hi - thanks for the commnets!

If you simply want a system to randomly determine what coloured jelly bean is the next out of the jar, then yes, this concept is over engineered.

The idea here is that you have random system that has an underlying structure.

In this system you have a probability gradient introduced by the 2D6 navigation system (up is disfavoured) down is favoured (with a slight left lean). Also, the Hex you are currently in determines which outcomes are possible next. Therefore, past events/outcomes matter. So, there is some continuity in the randomness.

For example, in the below random outdoor terrain generator I made, Plains are favoured (bottom of the Hex Flower) over other terrain (e.g. Woods and Hills) and Mountains are quite disfavoured (top of the Hex Fowler). Also, the way this set up, you can’t go from plain to mountains without first passing through hills. Therefore, while it is randomness, there is also a sense of continuity.

As mentioned in the comments above, you could have a weather Hex Flower that progress from mild weather to severe weather, passing through intermediate states. Also, due to probability structure, and the continuity limitations, you can ensure that severe weather is rarer than mild weather.

The idea is not so complex that it can’t be done in a few minutes (of the seven or so I’ve made to date, the idea took less than 15 minutes to plan. So, yes it requires some thought about what you wish to achieve, but it is not so onerous. Requiring some thought/planning is not a bad thing, indeed I think it is part of the charm of this system.

As an example in my Town Temperature Hex Power Flower, I simply had to think of few ways in which the PCs might get evicted from a town, and who might instigate this. I decide the two main elements who might do this were the clergy and the law, with a minor contribution form Guilds. I then built the system from mild conditions at the bottom to ‘Pitch Forks” at the top.

Simples.

I also enjoyed making this fun but silly Rot Grub tracker; in this idea the 'Heart' is the terminal destination, with major organs being next to it:

:O)