How useful is the Dodge action?

I’m sorry you misunderstood what I said and hopefully I made it more clear in the last post. There is probably a better example than the sanctuary/ankheg example that you keep bringing up but I won’t belabour things by finding a different one. I think we beat this horse sufficiently.

I started this post by asking the OP to post a separate thread on his claim that dodge as an action (not a bonus action or free action) is “awesome and used all the time.” Monks and others using Dodge is a different situation entirely as the action cost is much less.

I started a separate thread by mistake, I was busy and didn’t see this one.

So far all I haven’t seen anything that convinces me it’s “awesome” and “used all the time.”

I have seen that it’s very situational. It’s clear that most also realize that if the DM plays intelligent monsters correctly it declines in value.

smbakeresq said:

I started this post by asking the OP to post a separate thread on his claim that dodge as an action (not a bonus action or free action) is “awesome and used all the time.” Monks and others using Dodge is a different situation entirely as the action cost is much less.

I started a separate thread by mistake, I was busy and didn’t see this one.

So far all I haven’t seen anything that convinces me it’s “awesome” and “used all the time.”

I have seen that it’s very situational. It’s clear that most also realize that if the DM plays intelligent monsters correctly it declines in value.

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Really check the timestamps. You can clearly see I started this thread before your request on the thread I started about melee vs ranged and that I have mentioned this fact both there and on the thread you started about dodging today. I guess it will take you another 24 hours before you notice them. Once you finally take the time to get up to speed you can come back and apologize.

TaranTheWanderer said:

[MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION]“You keep on ignoring that Spreading damage around is useful in itself. ”

Actually, I’m not arguing for or against this. I didn’t touch on that point at all. But it’s probably true that it can be useful, especially if a DM uses dodge as a guide to attack someone other than the person dodging. (I assume that’s what you mean by spreading the damage, unless I’m misunderstanding. An enemy sees someone is hard to hit so they choose to attack someone else thus spreading the damage around.)

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There's not a lot of difference between ignoring and refusing to comment on the primary point I've been going on about since I've started this thread...

But you finally id comment on it so I'll forgive and drop the issue. Most importantly and most amazingly, you found my point to be valid and correct after you finally took the time to consider and comment on it. Way to go [MENTION=15882]TaranTheWanderer[/MENTION]

So dodge is useful because it can spread damage out. Dodge is also useful as it can prevent a heck of a lot of damage. So ultimately no matter what the enemy does when you dodge there is a useful outcome! The only remaining thing to discuss is comparing a party member dodging to a party member attacking and how that effects team success. What's your opinion there?

FrogReaver said:

There's not a lot of difference between ignoring and refusing to comment on the primary point I've been going on about since I've started this thread...

But you finally id comment on it so I'll forgive and drop the issue. Most importantly and most amazingly, you found my point to be valid and correct after you finally took the time to consider and comment on it. Way to go [MENTION=15882]TaranTheWanderer[/MENTION]

So dodge is useful because it can spread damage out. Dodge is also useful as it can prevent a heck of a lot of damage. So ultimately no matter what the enemy does when you dodge there is a useful outcome! The only remaining thing to discuss is comparing a party member dodging to a party member attacking and how that effects team success. What's your opinion there?

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I was neither refusing nor ignoring your points. And it's probably not that amazing that I agreed with you...I wasn't ever disagreeing with you. In any case, I got side-tracked trying to explain my own point(s) and there's been lots and lots of points made in this thread and I didn't comment on most of them so, hopefully, I didn't offend anyone.

It has only just occurred to me, though, that you were the one who started this thread, so maybe I should have commented on it. Teaches me for not reading the OP more thoroughly...


As far as attacking vs dodging, I'd say it depends on the situation - like most things. If you aren't the kind of person dealing lotsa damage, or are trying to concentrate on a spell and you're being ganged up on, you are probably better off dodging rather than doing piddly damage but getting hit and using up the healer's round casting a healing spell. Ideally, if you need to dodge and if you can get away with also attacking at the same time, do that.

off-hand weapon, Fighter Action Surge, quicken spell, rogue cunning action, concentrate on damaging spells etc...

I'm not sure if that's the answer you were looking for.

On a separate but slightly related note, the dodge action is pretty useful for enemies to use, especially when you have a party who specializes in ganging up on one enemy at a time to systematically take each down. It will only take the first round of combat for an enemy to realize that his opponent is using this tactic and the one they are ganging up on should, logically, take a dodge action while his allies attack from a distance. (assuming the enemy is smart/wily enough to use such tactics) In that situation, I feel, it's probably beneficial to lose your 1 or 2 attacks and just dodge.

FrogReaver said:

In my opening post I talked about the worst case with dodge where the enemies don’t target the dodging pc. The conclusion was that dodge can still be better in such situations so that damage is spread around on the team more evenly even though a greater amount of total damage will be taken by the team.

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While it might be true that Dodge is still useful, this is also about motivating players to use it, which is stronger if they can actually directly see how useful it is.

In fact, my whole point was that the way you DM determines strongly how your players play.

TaranTheWanderer said:

Just the same as a DM having a low int monster avoid a dodging character because it’s tactically inferior even when said monster wouldn’t typically resort to those tactics.

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For me, Intelligence isn't necessarily a key stat in combat. Experienced creatures whose lives depend on it (pretty much any that have lived long enough to challenge PCs), will fight effectively.

As an aside, a house rule I have also, is that creatures in a fully magical world usually have some rudimentary understanding or sense for it, just as they can guess the shining, sharp end of a spear is probably dangerous.

FrogReaver said:

Really check the timestamps. You can clearly see I started this thread before your request on the thread I started about melee vs ranged and that I have mentioned this fact both there and on the thread you started about dodging today. I guess it will take you another 24 hours before you notice them. Once you finally take the time to get up to speed you can come back and apologize.

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Don’t have to check the time stamps. I said I didn’t see it. I was in court, then in court, then in court again, then on a break took a quick look, typed my thread on word on the phone while waiting in a Nursing Home, then posted it, then saw my client in a nursing home, discussed with his doctor his hospice arrangements, then went back to the office to tell his family of his situation then had to run to court before I went to happy hour, typing on my phone.

So no I won’t apologize to you. I acknowledged that I didn’t see it and said so. My business and clients and their dying relatives (I am an attorney) take precedence over you and your feels. That’s just the way it is.

My thread and here proved to me that Dodge as an Action is not always used and not as awesome as you claim. It is always circumstantial and sometimes useful, that’s it.

BTW, no apology and don’t ever speak to me again.

clearstream said:

For me, Intelligence isn't necessarily a key stat in combat. Experienced creatures whose lives depend on it (pretty much any that have lived long enough to challenge PCs), will fight effectively.

As an aside, a house rule I have also, is that creatures in a fully magical world usually have some rudimentary understanding or sense for it, just as they can guess the shining, sharp end of a spear is probably dangerous.

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I think ability to access a situational would rely more on cunning and awareness, which is related to wisdom IMO.

I play it the same way you do also, in your typical fantasy world most would be aware of magic effects on a basic level.

@smbakereq

If you don’t want to see what I have to post you are welcome to block me. The issue isn’t you starting the other thread. The issue is you keeping on claiming that your suggestion to start this thread is why it was started. That’s false. You had been called on that mistake twice already before you came in here and said it again. At some point repeatedly taking credit for something you didn’t do is a mistake that deserves an apology especially after you have been told twice. At some point it stops mattering whether you actually read such responses and whether you should have read them by now.