Turned Undead Actions

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beaumontsebos

Explorer

• Nov 14, 2018

• #1

Rules state: A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there's nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.

What if a turned undead creature had spells it could use to get away? For example: dimension door. Instead of Dashing or Dodging, could it cast dimension door to get away?

 

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TaranTheWanderer

Legend

• Nov 14, 2018

• #2

I think that is fair. The point is it won't try to come closer or attack. Fleeing in the most efficient manner seems reasonable. It might just leave and plot and come back later with reinforcements if it's smart enough to dim door.

 

Hawk Diesel

Adventurer

• Nov 14, 2018

• #3

Depends. I might rule that their fear prevents rational thought. Spellcasting is complicated and requires a degree of focus. If one is too terrified, they are more likely to fumble the spell or even forget that they have them. I mean, when you are scared think about how hard it can be just to get a key out and open a door, possibly dropping the key. If something that mundane can be so much more difficult when terrified, imagine how much harder casting a spell might be.

 

Hjorimir

Adventurer

• Nov 14, 2018

• #4

I'd certainly allow the use of abilities (including spells) to flee. In fact, I think that's fantastic. I turn the lich! Poof! He teleports.

 

Satyrn

First Post

• Nov 14, 2018

• #5

beaumontsebos said:

Rules state: A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there's nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.

What if a turned undead creature had spells it could use to get away? For example: dimension door. Instead of Dashing or Dodging, could it cast dimension door to get away?

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I have them only use their spells to escape as a last resort in place of using Dodge. My rationale is essentially that it's only when they are truly cornered that their instinct to flee gives way slightly to seeking rational, more complex means of escape.

 

DEFCON 1

Legend

Supporter

• Nov 14, 2018

• #6

Personally I would not have undead use spells and the like to supplement their movement when they are turned.

'Turned' to me is not that the undead is "afraid" and thus has to get away in whatever manner they can. After all... skeletons and zombies can be Turned, but they are mindless and have no emotions for which "fear" could be considered one of them. Instead, I see Turned as a magical compulsion for which they have to do, whether they intellectually understand what is happening or not. The magical effect is for them to just move away from the cleric as much as they can, and be unable to come back. Thus the compulsion does not allow them to cast spells. They can Dash, or if they can't get away, they Dodge. That's the magical effect they are under and they are incapable of going against that effect by doing something else.

 

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UngeheuerLich

Legend

• Nov 15, 2018

• #7

I spontaneously would say no. I think it would be as reasonable to cast a spel as it is to attack the source of fear if there is no other way out.
I might just allow a saving throw to remember the exact words. Might ve an int saving throw.
I could also see a charisma saving throw to get yourself together good enough to cast such a spell.
I am always in favour of allowing saving throws if there is a doubt if an action can be taken or not.

 

77IM

Explorer!!!

Supporter

• Nov 15, 2018

• #8

I would say yes. I think of turning as a divine command: "Begone!" The undead must obey, because the power of the god compels them. If teleporting or plane shifting or something is the swiftest and most effective way to be gone, then the undead will do that.


When I run 5E, the rules are not absolute; they do not attempt to cover every case. Rather, they attempt to cover the general case("take the Dash action"), and maybe the most common special cases ("try to escape, or take the Dodge action"). But there will always be special cases that aren't covered. To me, an undead who can teleport or plane shift is a special case. So the fact that these abilities aren't mentioned in the general rule for turning doesn't preclude their use.

 

Oofta

Legend

• Nov 15, 2018

• #9

Looking at just the rules

For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving.

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I think the bolded part is the important bit. Normally it will just dash as it's action, but what if there's nowhere for it to dash to? Specifically, what if it's trapped in say a Web spell and can't physically move but could teleport? To get out of the web I would rule that it could teleport.

But what if it's just blocked by a dead end hallway? I'd still rule that it does whatever it must to get away. There are no limitations so I would say it includes casting a spell.

Feel free to read thing into what is going on with the mental state of the affected creature if it makes sense, but the rules are silent on exactly how it works in your campaign.

EDIT: I'd also probably just let them teleport even if they could dash just because it's more fun. I'd put that in the house rule category though. Assuming my group ever manages to turn an undead high enough level to have teleport.

 

Last edited: Nov 15, 2018

Satyrn

First Post

• Nov 15, 2018

• #10

Oofta said:

Assuming my group ever manages to turn an undead high enough level to have teleport.

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You, my friend, need to start using Dimension Dooring Zombies.

They're exactly what they sound like: The Zombie stat block with the ability to dimension door (recharge 6). My notes say they only use the ability when they are prevented from moving toward their goal. They were a smashing success when I included a handful in a zombie horde. The silly players thought they were safe after dropping a portcullis Mwahahaha! *cough* *cough* ha!