D&D 5E Geas + Modify Memory = Do you know your Geas condition?

Stalker0 · Nov 14, 2018

Lets say a person was subjected to a GEAS, but then shortly after their memory was modified so they don't remember getting the GEAS effect.

Would they have any knowledge or innate way to avoid the actions restricted by the GEAS, or would they just stumble into it and take the damage?

Hjorimir · Nov 14, 2018

Sinister. I approve!

Henry · Nov 14, 2018

RAW: Sounds like it wouldn't matter. They are affected by the Geas, they take the damage.

RAI: Reading the spell more carefully, note that if a creature "does not understand" the spellcaster (know their language), the spell has no effect. This sounds like the target needs to KNOW that they are disobeying the caster. Their very disobedience is what triggers the spell - reinforced by the fact that this is psychic damage, not any other type of damage. I think the intent is, if there is no way to understand that you're disobeying the caster, then the spell does not trigger until the caster somehow again makes them aware of their wishes in regards to original commands.

RAF: That's a heck of a way to open a campaign, that every time you try to do a certain thing, you get a near-fatal brain aneurysm and have to be saved from death's door by others in the party. Better for campaigns that are starting near 5th level or so, such that it wont kill someone outright.

TaranTheWanderer · Nov 14, 2018

Henry said:
RAW: Sounds like it wouldn't matter. They are affected by the Geas, they take the damage.

RAI: Reading the spell more carefully, note that if a creature "does not understand" the spellcaster (know their language), the spell has no effect. This sounds like the target needs to KNOW that they are disobeying the caster. Their very disobedience is what triggers the spell - reinforced by the fact that this is psychic damage, not any other type of damage. I think the intent is, if there is no way to understand that you're disobeying the caster, then the spell does not trigger until the caster somehow again makes them aware of their wishes in regards to original commands.

RAF: That's a heck of a way to open a campaign, that every time you try to do a certain thing, you get a near-fatal brain aneurysm and have to be saved from death's door by others in the party. Better for campaigns that are starting near 5th level or so, such that it wont kill someone outright.

Interesting. If we go by how you describe RAI, you can temporarily ‘cure’ someone affected by Geas with modify memory.

Henry · Nov 14, 2018

TaranTheWanderer said:
Interesting. If we go by how you describe RAI, you can temporarily ‘cure’ someone affected by Geas with modify memory.

Yeah, what got me thinking about it is, "what's the difference between, 'never understood what you are saying,' and 'never heard you say it in the first place?' " Recognition of the command sounds like it's key to the magic of the spell.

Azzy · Nov 14, 2018

Henry said:
RAW: Sounds like it wouldn't matter. They are affected by the Geas, they take the damage.

RAI: Reading the spell more carefully, note that if a creature "does not understand" the spellcaster (know their language), the spell has no effect. This sounds like the target needs to KNOW that they are disobeying the caster. Their very disobedience is what triggers the spell - reinforced by the fact that this is psychic damage, not any other type of damage. I think the intent is, if there is no way to understand that you're disobeying the caster, then the spell does not trigger until the caster somehow again makes them aware of their wishes in regards to original commands.

RAF: That's a heck of a way to open a campaign, that every time you try to do a certain thing, you get a near-fatal brain aneurysm and have to be saved from death's door by others in the party. Better for campaigns that are starting near 5th level or so, such that it wont kill someone outright.

As a DM, you could give the charcter dreams (or visions, or similar) to point them in the right direction—either randomly or in response to disobeying the geas.

TaranTheWanderer · Nov 15, 2018

Henry said:
Yeah, what got me thinking about it is, "what's the difference between, 'never understood what you are saying,' and 'never heard you say it in the first place?' " Recognition of the command sounds like it's key to the magic of the spell.

I like to look at the mythology around the spell and I'm not sure intent drives the spell. Heroes who inadvertently break their Geas do so to their determinant and/or doom. See Cúchulainn.

I haven't read those old Epics in a long, long time and I know Cúchulainn isn't the best example because he was forced to choose between conflicting Taboos, but Wikipedia states that traditionally a Geas can be broken by accident...

So, if I were to keep it close to the original Mythology, I'd say that Modify Memory doesn't protect you if, at the time the Geas was placed, you understood it. If you forget about it later and inadvertently break it, then you suffer the consequences.

Quickleaf · Nov 15, 2018

Stalker0 said:
Lets say a person was subjected to a GEAS, but then shortly after their memory was modified so they don't remember getting the GEAS effect.

Would they have any knowledge or innate way to avoid the actions restricted by the GEAS, or would they just stumble into it and take the damage?

My ruling would be that the creature feels compelled to perform the terms of the geas, but initially justifies it in some way appropriate to its personality. Perhaps if the caster who charmed the creature is known or emotionally significant to the creature, the creature has something depicting the caster in its residence (e.g. a statue of painting or locket), while it the caster is unknown maybe the creature has recurring dreams of the caster’s face. Of course, detect magic cast on the creature would pick up that it’s under the effect of an enchantment.

D&D 5E Geas + Modify Memory = Do you know your Geas condition?

Stalker0

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Hjorimir

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Henry

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TaranTheWanderer

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Henry

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Azzy

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TaranTheWanderer

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