D&D 5E Does Leomund's Tiny Hut block Scrying?

Stalker0 · Nov 26, 2018

Leomund's Tiny Hut says it blocks magical effects from crossing the barrier. Scrying doesn't "cross" per say as just "appear".

On the one hand, we already have a 3rd level spell (Nondetection) that is specifically designed to do this. If Leomund's can block all of that and more and for multiple people....it seems to weaken nondetection. Of course on the other hand, leomund's is an immobile area where nondetection lets you walk around.

So what do you think?

ccs · Nov 27, 2018

When I'm the DM it does.
I let it exclude any magical effect who's origin is outside the hut.

Of course exceptions include wishes & similar, gods, & specific story based things (that the characters can learn about, thwart, etc if they care to)

Edit: I'm the DM. My opinion is that the tiny hut has a floor. Therefore the default hut in my game has a floor. Unless the caster would prefer not....

As for the argument that the letting it block scrying, teleport, has a floor, etc "is too powerfull"?
Hint: I'm the DM. My NPC'S may or may not be hindered by this very common spell. The more powerfull/ important the NPC.... So while one npc may be blocked, the lich lord of the tower of doom might well be another story.

Dausuul · Nov 27, 2018

I am inclined to say that a spell only "crosses" the barrier if a) it requires an unbroken line of effect from caster to target, or b) it creates an entity outside the barrier which must then move through space to get inside.

Thus, for example, arcane eye would be hedged out by Leomund's tiny hut, because it's an example of b). The sensor appears near the caster and must move through space to reach its target. On the other hand, scrying simply conjures the sensor into being at a location and would not be blocked. Misty step requires line of sight and would be blocked, but dimension door doesn't and wouldn't.

The line is a little fuzzy, but since Leomund's is already stupidly powerful for its level, I see no need to make it better with a generous ruling on this.

TaranTheWanderer · Nov 27, 2018

Also note that spells won't cross the barrier. Considering the barrier doesn't extend underground, spells that don't require line of sight or a direct line of effect - like scry or sending etc...wouldn't be hedged because they don't necessarily need to cross the barrier. They just circumvent the barrier.

Edit: when I run games, I've houseruled Tiny Hut so that it works exactly like 3.5. It protects you from weather and line of sight, giving you concealment and, possibly, if you make it the same colour of the surrounding area, making it harder for things to spot you. Other than that, people can come and go or cast through it both ways. I'm not sure why they chose to buff this particular spell when almost every other spell from 3.5 to 5th got nerfed.

Edit 2: for your convenience: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/tinyHut.htm

Dausuul · Nov 27, 2018

Another consideration: If Leomund's can block scrying and teleportation, it becomes comparable to Mordenkainen's private sanctum. Although sanctum covers a larger area and can be made permanent, it lacks a ritual-casting option, offers no protection against enemies physically walking inside, and is 1 level higher.

jgsugden · Nov 27, 2018

TaranTheWanderer said:
Also note that it won't cross the barrier. Considering the barrier doesn't extend underground, spells that don't require line of sight or a direct line of effect - like scry or sending etc...wouldn't be hedged because they don't necessarily need to cross the barrier. They just circumvent the barrier...

The area of effect is a hemisphere. A hemisphere has a 'floor'. Crawford acknowledged that he blew it with his initial ruling, and that the hemisphere description means that it does have a floor.

MNblockhead · Nov 27, 2018

By saying that a spell can't cross, I read that its effects can either, including effects that would "just appear" and not travel to a location. It provides a barrier to spells and magic effects. Nondetection remains useful over tiny hut, because it protects you from divination magic when you are mobile. You are not going to sneak around in the magic hut. The hut is just a hiding place.

TaranTheWanderer · Nov 27, 2018

jgsugden said:
The area of effect is a hemisphere. A hemisphere has a 'floor'. Crawford acknowledged that he blew it with his initial ruling, and that the hemisphere description means that it does have a floor.

Yet another reason why I don't use the 5e version. In fact, the less powerful 3.5 version was 3rd for wizards and only 2nd for Druids, making the current version that much more powerful. Once again, it boggles my mind why they gave it all the best aspects of spell much higher with hardly a draw-back. (the caster must stay inside the dome seems to be the biggest drawback.) I can only think they mis-read the original spell description... Or, perhaps they thought the original spell was underutilized and decided to give it a buff...I don't know.

That said, I understand that this is my own hang-up and lots of people are perfectly fine with Tiny Hut as-is.

In any case, to get back on topic:
the desctiption says "All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it."

To me, it works exactly like the wall of a building. You can't walk through a wall and you can't cast spells through it but you can still cast clairvoyance, or scry the other side of the wall.

TarionzCousin · Nov 27, 2018

Stalker0 said:
Does Leomund's Tiny Hut block Scrying?

I would say it blocks magical scrying for everyone except Leomund; he built in a secret back door that only he knows how to use.

5ekyu · Nov 27, 2018

"or be cast through it" would be the decider for me. No, in my games you will not be able to scry or teleport from one side to the other as extend and cast thru seem to be pretty much all inclusive enough for me.