D&D 4E The True Swordmage

Swordmage
For me a swordmage is not a wizard who happens to hold a sword in one hand while using the other for weaving of spells. For me a swordmage is not even a wizard who channels their power through a magic sword like one might use a staff or wand. (while that is perhaps closer) nor one who enchants their weapon.

For me the swordmages weapon and maneuvering and swordplay he does with it is integral to the magic he does. When he casts a spell its not a weaving of words but rather a dancing of their blade cutting runes into reality which bleeds with elemental energy. It's a weapon that when he wields it cuts through dimensional fabric itself teleporting him or even an enemy through a rip he formed. His weapon is core and integrated with many magics he does - he hurls his blade across the battlefield and it shatters becoming a field of biting shards slicing his enemies to shreds til he calls it back to his hand.

For me I was able to see the Swordmage this way in 4e AND for me their magics being their own and not pulled from some universal list everyone had access to I felt was creatively empowering, at least at a flavor level yes it might have been an illusion but isn’t that roleplaying?

This was the first class I managed to play in 4e.

So, I think in 5e, a reflavored Hexblade is the closest existing option, using SCAG weapon cantrips instead of the Extra Attack invocation, but it still lacks spells enough spells that use the weapon, and doesn’t have the creative umph of the 4e swordmage.

doctorbadwolf said:

So, I think in 5e, a reflavored Hexblade is the closest existing option, using SCAG weapon cantrips instead of the Extra Attack invocation, but it still lacks spells enough spells that use the weapon, and doesn’t have the creative umph of the 4e swordmage.

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I will have to investigate that... as the Eldritch Fighter feels like a dabbler for the most part stuck with meh spells.

I get the impression that the 5e team oft lacked empathy/understanding of what for me composed the greatest elements of 4e. I totally like some of their structural choices (even having the Warlord be Battlemaster with the right selection of maneuvers invokes the Tome of Battle classes and wouldn't be horrible if they actualy "GOT" the Warrior Lord and he could be an intellectual Tactician *without having the worst saving throws on the planet" and other mechanical conundrums as well as the rather sparse Warlord behavior. ).

Also SCAG?

Garthanos said:

I will have to investigate that... as the Eldritch Fighter feels like a dabbler for the most part stuck with meh spells.

I get the impression that the 5e team oft lacked empathy/understanding of what for me composed the greatest elements of 4e. I totally like some of their structural choices (even having the Warlord be Battlemaster with the right selection of maneuvers invokes the Tome of Battle classes and wouldn't be horrible if they actualy "GOT" the Warrior Lord and he could be an intellectual Tactician *without having the worst saving throws on the planet" and other mechanical conundrums as well as the rather sparse Warlord behavior. ).

Also SCAG?

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Sword Coast Adventurers Guide. It contains the Bladesinger (the wizarding counter to the Eldritch Knight Fighter), and two new cantrips that are combination of spell and melee Attack. One sends minor fire damage to a nearby target, the other deals 1d8 damage to the target if they move before your next turn.

Hexblade also gets access to a couple of the Paladin’s “X Smite” spells, helping you get that “magic and weapon skill are combined in one discipline” feel.

doctorbadwolf said:

Hexblade also gets access to a couple of the Paladin’s “X Smite” spells, helping you get that “magic and weapon skill are combined in one discipline” feel.

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Reminds me of a concept of Eldritch Paladins - it was actually called the Arcadian Knight that I am using for my title here

I like the name and background of hexblade, but about gampley the classes about buffing or nerfing enemies aren't my cup of tea. I would rather a buff-breaker/resitance-breaker.

And I would like arcane maneuvers, spell-like abilities in the middle between at-will and once-encounter, like the swordsage of Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.

Bladesingers were in 4e Essentials, too, and did something similar.

I go back and forth on what a Swordmage in 5e should be, and if it should be at all (rather than a range of subclasses fitting into different parents classes, each approaching the idea of Arcane Gish in a different way).

I think part of my issue with 5e Hexblade Blade-Pact Warlock as fitting the platonic idea of the 4e Swordmage is that pesky Charisma vs Intelligence difference. I think I'm also affected by the fact that Hexblades existed in 4e and felt very different from Swordmages, and also felt very similar to 5e Blade Pact Warlocks (and to 5e Hexblade Patron Warlocks especially).

Most of all, I feel like Sword+Mage is a rotten name, and completely narrow in focus and identity - I felt similar with Pact of the Blade Warlock and the term Hexblade and the term Bladesinger. Almost every Arcane Gish concept somehow includes Blade or Sword in its name (3.5e Duskblade is another example!).

I think it best to try to capture the platonic idea of the class, and then figure out what would fit underneath it. I think playing with the Arcane Aegis is a starting point, as is the important idea of Martial Weapons User + Arcane Magic User. Swordmages, for lack of a better word, are Arcanists who channel magic through their weapons, rather than hit and then cast, as you said above. I agree that the Paladin smite smells are a great idea, and the idea of giving a bunch of them to the Ranger spell list in UA speaks to the broader application of this class of spell casting. I think the Swordmage would need additional "Smite" type spells that do these things.

I think the subclasses can't be as simple as Aegis of Shielding vs Aegis of Assault vs Aegis of Ensnaring, though those builds in 4e are a good arrow in the direction of character concepts (teleporting front-lines warrior or arcane hunter). Shielding probably should be the standard Aegis power that all "Swordmages" get, just the basic application of the Aegis, as that is what Aegis means - the Defendery function.

I think a master-at-arms sort of Armamentalist, vs an Arcane Hunter vs a Jedi Knight sort of psionic arcane warrior vs a Lightsabery- radiant weapon wielding "Luminary" (literal and metaphorical) smart person are good concepts for subclasses. I'm not sure there are 10 concepts that fit clearly within this class chassis concept versus fitting better as Fighter, Artificer, Wizard, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock, Bard, Rogue, Monk, etc subclasses, but I don't think it's a bad place to start thinking.

When I was brainstorming these ideas, one of my subclass ideas was an Iron Man or Gundam Fighter or Xenoblade Mechon/Skell-like power suit warrior. Then UA revealed the armorer Artificer, and I DOH'd so hard I almost hit my head - it was a far better fit as a type of martially-oriented Artificer than in my theoretical Swordmage chassis.

I still think there's room for a class where Arcane Magic is understood not as a bookish thing, nor as a Pact, nor even as innate, but something coming from bodily and martial discipline - where movement of weapon and casting of spell are one the same. The weapon and weave. It's almost more like a Kensei Monk, than anything, but I think the concept itself is just barely unique enough to be separate from the Monk chassis and its Ki. I also think it's separate from the Paladin's concept of magic, where regardless of Oath, the Paladin draws inner strength from their devotion to a platonic ideal, and how closely they align with and meet that ideal. Such a Swordmage might have codes in their Arcane Knightly Orders, but the codes don't make the magic.

I've thought a lot about the Knights Templar, and how perhaps they aren't Paladins so much as Secret Society Warriors. Arcane means secret, hidden. Perhaps these are a type of "Swordmage" bound in by initiation rites but not to profound or profane powers, but rather to arcane mysteries, martial practices, and bonds of fellowship with one another. Perhaps then a Templar might be a subclass of this "Swordmage" class, rather than fitting weirdly as a common-use parlance for a Paladin Oath yet-unseen.

I've been toying with calling this class the "Vanguard" - the Aegis protecting the front lines. I'm still unsure if it shouldn't just be a single, arcane-themed subclass of Ranger, though. I feel like it should be different, being Int and heavily arcane and not at all woodsy, but I'm having trouble tearing apart the platonic ideals of these two concepts.

Yeah I separated Aegis and subclass in my Swordmage for a reason. The aegis just isn’t a very strong story hook, which is what a subclass should start from in 5e.

doctorbadwolf said:

Yeah I separated Aegis and subclass in my Swordmage for a reason. The aegis just isn’t a very strong story hook, which is what a subclass should start from in 5e.

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You made a 5e Swordmage homebrew? I feel like I read it or read about it somewhere in the forums over the years, but I'd be curious to see it now.

I did that with Aegis and subclass too, I totally agree with you for that.
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