Rate the Star Wars Movies

delericho

Legend
There was a lot of speculation about Snoke for example, but nope they Boba Fett'ed him.

I actually thought that was one of the better moves in tLJ - it was something I really didn't expect, and so thought was pretty cool.

However, this:

Apparently the big problem with The Last Jedi was there was no overall plan for episodes VII-IX so the director was allowed to more or less do whatever he wanted...

Is a major problem. Writing the middle chapter of a trilogy without knowing where the story is going is a boneheaded move.

And they killed off Luke to early (should have been episode IX if at all), and now with Carrie's death all of the OT main characters/actors are dead.

In fairness, Carrie's death wasn't something they could really have planned for. Also, just because Luke is dead doesn't mean we've seen the last of him.

(Actually, the same is true of Snoke, too. Just because we haven't seen any evil Force ghosts yet doesn't mean they can't happen.)
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
I actually thought that was one of the better moves in tLJ - it was something I really didn't expect, and so thought was pretty cool.

However, this:



Is a major problem. Writing the middle chapter of a trilogy without knowing where the story is going is a boneheaded move.



In fairness, Carrie's death wasn't something they could really have planned for. Also, just because Luke is dead doesn't mean we've seen the last of him.

(Actually, the same is true of Snoke, too. Just because we haven't seen any evil Force ghosts yet doesn't mean they can't happen.)

Not much character development though. Hell there was arguably more in Rogue One than TFA+ TLJ. Look at the OT, Luke was a scrub level 1 or 2, got trained leveled up, went to Death star, leveled up and then fought the Battle of Yavin, leveled up (lvl 4 or 5), roll credits. Got a bit cocky in ESB and had his ass handed to him.

Rey untrained, flies the Falcon like a boss, defeats a trained dark Jedi (trained by Luke and Snoke), and kicks ass in TLJ. Its also really boring although the actor is doing a better job than than Haydan and Hamil episode IV, the writing is not her fault. Her supporting cast is a lot weaker than the OT though I don't really care about Poe or any of the others and the villains are stealing the show (Kylo Ren and Hux). When Lando and Fett as support characters are way more interesting than most of the main cast in the Disney films you may have a problem.

And in Empire you knew Luke was special because of who he was, there was an explanation for it that made sense in universe (and he still got his butt handed to him by Vader). Snokes a chump, Rey is Mary Sue, Kylo throws tantrums. And we should care because? The Droids are also stealing the show (BB-8 and the Rogue One/Solo ones).
 



1) Empire Strikes Back. It changes everything and shakes up the status quo like no one's business. Leia loves Han. Luke becomes a Jedi. Vader is Luke's father. Force Users can move objects with their mind! Jedi can be ghosts! The rebellion is on the ropes. Han is lost. Luke spends the entire more separated from everyone else.
If released now, this movie would be way more polarising than The Last Jedi.

2) The Last Jedi. Full of surprises as well. It made me excited about the franchise again after the mediocrity of The Force Awakens, and set the stage for an "anything could happen" final chapter. So many amazing performances and great, unexpected twists that just made sense. Of course the million-to-one plan would fail. The odds were a million-to-one! Of course the selfish codebreaker would betray everyone for money. That's what criminals do.
And at the climax, Luke returns and saves the entire resistance with the single most Jedi move ever, delaying an army without ever throwing a single punch, or lightsaber strike in the ultimate pacifistic victory.

3) A New Hope. Imaginative and unique despite wearing its inspirations unapologetically on its sleeve. And a master class of worldbuilding through throw-away lines.

4) Rogue One. Sneaks ahead of the pack for two standout elements. One, the absence of the Jedi and Skywalkers. It was the first Star Wars film without any, and the first to try and break out of that mold. But also the downer ending. In a time of constant franchises, the idea of killing off the entire cast still feels like a surprise.

5) Solo / Return of the Jedi. Tie, because they're both in the middle and demonstrate some general laziness. RotJ was decent, but really feels like a retread. Especially as the last half is basically pulling and recycling the planned climax of A New Hope. Solo was more entertaining than it had any right to be, and worked despite making three of the biggest moments of Han's life all largely connected. But it's not nearly as bad as people think.

6) Revenge of the Sith. Decent enough. Nothing special.

7) Phantom Menace. Not as bad as everyone thinks or remembers. It's failings are largely one of editing. I have a fan cut that makes some very minor tweaks, and it works quite well. And all the "boring politics" people whine about is a couple minutes at most.

8) Attack of the Clones. Adequate. Soft in the middle. But the solid ending makes up for that. It's easier to forgive films with a good ending that leave you walking away happy.

8) Saved for Episode IX.

9) Force Awakens. This movie is :):):):). Unoriginal, uninspired dreck that completely and unabashedly milks the original trilogy. And somehow the science and scenes make less sense than anything else in Star Wars, which is an impressive feat. It completely and utterly fails at worldbuilding, characterisation, plotting, establishing motive, and many other aspects, and is held together by a frenetic pace and stop watch action scenes that never let you stop and think for long, otherwise you'd realise how terrible everything is.
Say what you will about the prequels, at least they did something freakin' different. A completely different tone and feel, while still being Star Wars. Episode VII makes it feel like nothing has changed. If not for the familiar characters looking older, it could have been set a year after The Return of the Jedi.

10) Pause for effect.

11) The Star Wars Holiday Special. Yeah, this is so much worse than anything that you need to separate it from the rest of the films to demonstrate the magnitude of its horror.
 
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This is, of course, not including Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure or Battle for Endor.
Damn that opening 10 minutes of BfE. Holy :):):):)...

Or the Clone Wars TV show which included the outright best Star Wars tales, as well as some of the worst.
And Rebels, which is just in the middle somewhere.
 

Not much character development though. Hell there was arguably more in Rogue One than TFA+ TLJ. Look at the OT, Luke was a scrub level 1 or 2, got trained leveled up, went to Death star, leveled up and then fought the Battle of Yavin, leveled up (lvl 4 or 5), roll credits. Got a bit cocky in ESB and had his ass handed to him.

Rey untrained, flies the Falcon like a boss, defeats a trained dark Jedi (trained by Luke and Snoke), and kicks ass in TLJ. Its also really boring although the actor is doing a better job than than Haydan and Hamil episode IV, the writing is not her fault. Her supporting cast is a lot weaker than the OT though I don't really care about Poe or any of the others and the villains are stealing the show (Kylo Ren and Hux). When Lando and Fett as support characters are way more interesting than most of the main cast in the Disney films you may have a problem.

And in Empire you knew Luke was special because of who he was, there was an explanation for it that made sense in universe (and he still got his butt handed to him by Vader). Snokes a chump, Rey is Mary Sue, Kylo throws tantrums. And we should care because? The Droids are also stealing the show (BB-8 and the Rogue One/Solo ones).

Rey was trained to fight and was probably a better fighter on Jakku than Luke ever was. (Where did he learn to fight? Yoda showed him how to lift rocks, not wield a lightsaber.)
And she beat an injured Kylo Ren who had been hit by Chewie's bowcaster, that had been shown to be able to send stormtroopers flying.
Okay, it's weird how well she flies the Falcon. But then we need to ask how Luke can fly an X-wing so well.

Snoke as a chump... well... he was always a lame Emperor rip-off anyway. Dying like a chump was the only interesting thing done with the character.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
A New Hope
Empire
Return of the Jedi
Force Awakens
Rogue One
Ewoks: The Battle for Endor
Last Jedi
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Caravan of Courage: Ewok Adventures
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

oh and bring back Cindel Towani!!!!
 

MarkB

Legend
Rey untrained, flies the Falcon like a boss, defeats a trained dark Jedi (trained by Luke and Snoke), and kicks ass in TLJ. Its also really boring although the actor is doing a better job than than Haydan and Hamil episode IV, the writing is not her fault. Her supporting cast is a lot weaker than the OT though I don't really care about Poe or any of the others and the villains are stealing the show (Kylo Ren and Hux). When Lando and Fett as support characters are way more interesting than most of the main cast in the Disney films you may have a problem.
Poe didn't make much of an impact because they basically killed him off in the first act and then brought him back in the third with only the most minor of handwaves. The character is solid, he was just poorly handled.

And you didn't mention Finn. He's my favourite character in TFA - brought up as a stormtrooper in an evil army, conditioned for obedience from an early age, yet he still has the conscience to refuse to kill innocents, and after he's marooned on Jakku, parched and exhausted, still his first instinct when he sees someone in trouble is to run in unarmed to help them. For me, his story of overcoming his fears and finally facing up to the First Order surpasses Rey's character arc.

And in Empire you knew Luke was special because of who he was, there was an explanation for it that made sense in universe (and he still got his butt handed to him by Vader). Snokes a chump, Rey is Mary Sue, Kylo throws tantrums. And we should care because? The Droids are also stealing the show (BB-8 and the Rogue One/Solo ones).
Frankly, I prefer that they (provisionally, pending Episode IX) made Rey's parents nobodies. Why shouldn't the next great Force user be just an otherwise-ordinary person rather than the child of a queen and space-Jesus? Isn't that a far better message to send?
 

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