So, I Been Playing a Shadow Sorcerer...

Azzy · Dec 13, 2018

And it's been a blast (ha!). So far, I've made it up to 13th level and I've been enjoying the class, but I do have a few criticisms.

First, there's a shortage of thematic spells for a shadow sorcerer without turning to 3PP, unfortunately. That leads us to...

Second, the sorcerer, at higher levels has too few spells known—especially if you want to have thematic and niche spells alongside the more eveyday usable ones. Even if the spells known stayed at level+1 (as in lower levels) across all levels, that would be fine, but as is, I feel a bit stymied.

Third, the Hound of Ill Omen (which is a neat feature) is a little underwhelming.

So, any of you that have played this subclass, what are your thoughts?

5ekyu · Dec 14, 2018

Azzy said:
And it's been a blast (ha!). So far, I've made it up to 13th level and I've been enjoying the class, but I do have a few criticisms.

First, there's a shortage of thematic spells for a shadow sorcerer without turning to 3PP, unfortunately. That leads us to...

Second, the sorcerer, at higher levels has too few spells known—especially if you want to have thematic and niche spells alongside the more eveyday usable ones. Even if the spells known stayed at level+1 (as in lower levels) across all levels, that would be fine, but as is, I feel a bit stymied.

Third, the Hound of Ill Omen (which is a neat feature) is a little underwhelming.

So, any of you that have played this subclass, what are your thoughts?

I would say that having pkayed wild magic and divine soul sorcs as player and others i ran as NPC while GMing, i think except for your Hound you are seeing the overall lacks in the sorc class.

Prepper classes **generally** PREPARE stat modifier plus level spells out of more known. Many also have a pair of free spelks every odd levels thru 9th, meaning they are frequently PREPARING almost twice as many as sorc knows.

Even if there are enough thematic spells its hard to get openings to takr them.

Sure metamagic is potent but not very thematic or really to me interesting.

Divine Soul and Shadow are abt the only very interedting ones in core products tho the Runechild in Taldorei seems also quite interesting and thematic.

Note - i do not brlieve sorc is underpowered - it can build to sttong outputs - just that its a uninspiring set of mechanics for a rich concept.

Honestly, if sorcerer had gotten Invocations and Warlocks had gotten meta-magic (instead of the ones they have now) I think both would have benefitted.

FrogReaver · Dec 14, 2018

Sounds like most criticisms are typical criticisms of the sorcerer in general.

FrogReaver · Dec 14, 2018

I've not played the subclass in question so I'll give others a chance to respond before potentially derailing your thread before you get the feedback you want

MonkeezOnFire · Dec 14, 2018

You might have to get a bit creative in refluffing spells to get thematic shadow effects. Illusion spells like invisibility or Major Image could be shaping shadows to fool the perceptions of others. Fear could be revealing the horrors that lurk in the dark. Most damage spells that deal necrotic damage could probably qualify as being on theme. But I definitely agree that there aren't as many really thematic choices like there would be for a fire mage. Darkness and Shadow Blade are the only ones that really come to mind.

The only sorcerer I've played was a divine soul so I didn't really have this problem. If I needed a thematic spell I just picked off the cleric list.

Pauln6 · Dec 14, 2018

I'd love some shadow themed spells too since I'm playing a custom shadow Warlock. I've seen fan created shadow pacts where shadow stuff can be used to make illusions that bit more real. I can see how spending spell points to achieve this could work but more thematic spells would be better.

MechaTarrasque · Dec 14, 2018

Shadow sorcerer would have benefited from origin bonus spells. Arms of Hadar, Evard's Black Tentacles, and Hunger of Hadar seem particularly good for someone using the darkness. I thought about summon greater demon (for shadow demons, naturally), but I think they are really trying to limit "twin magic+summon/conjure/call" spells (I think conjure celestial is okay with them because it is a high level spell, and the creatures you get are pretty low CR for the level of the spell, and the only difference between a divine soul sorcerer twinning planar ally and a cleric casting planar ally twice [it is not a concentration spell] is the extra 10 minutes to cast).

Azzy · Dec 14, 2018

Pauln6 said:
I'd love some shadow themed spells too since I'm playing a custom shadow Warlock. I've seen fan created shadow pacts where shadow stuff can be used to make illusions that bit more real. I can see how spending spell points to achieve this could work but more thematic spells would be better.

If you have a chance to pick up Kobold Press' Deep Magic: Shadow Magic, it's got some interesting spells.

MonkeezOnFire · Dec 14, 2018

MechaTarrasque said:
Shadow sorcerer would have benefited from origin bonus spells. Arms of Hadar, Evard's Black Tentacles, and Hunger of Hadar seem particularly good for someone using the darkness. I thought about summon greater demon (for shadow demons, naturally), but I think they are really trying to limit "twin magic+summon/conjure/call" spells (I think conjure celestial is okay with them because it is a high level spell, and the creatures you get are pretty low CR for the level of the spell, and the only difference between a divine soul sorcerer twinning planar ally and a cleric casting planar ally twice [it is not a concentration spell] is the extra 10 minutes to cast).

I don't think twinned spell would work with the conjure spells as twinned spell states "... you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second creature in range with the same spell." Conjuring a creature isn't targeting a creature within range of the spell its targeting a space in which to summon the creature. I do wish sorcerers would get access to at least the conjure elemental spells at base. It might give extend spell more of a reason to exist.

MechaTarrasque · Dec 14, 2018

MonkeezOnFire said:
I don't think twinned spell would work with the conjure spells as twinned spell states "... you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to target a second creature in range with the same spell." Conjuring a creature isn't targeting a creature within range of the spell its targeting a space in which to summon the creature. I do wish sorcerers would get access to at least the conjure elemental spells at base. It might give extend spell more of a reason to exist.

I tend to agree with that line of thought, but I have long been unable to think of a good reason for sorcerers to not get any conjure monster spells, so that is what I focused on. I hadn't thought of extend spell. The solution to that would be give the sorcerer access to conjure elemental and conjure fey, and then errata those spells so if the caster loses concentration, the angry monster gets to hang around as long as it has time left (1 hour normal, or 2 if you extend spelled it). [Of course, I am evil and would have made summon greater demon last for 1d6 days if you lost concentration instead of rounds, and infernal calling be for 3d6 days instead of minutes on loss of concentration, so maybe I am not the best judge of these things...].

So, I Been Playing a Shadow Sorcerer...

Azzy

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5ekyu

Hero

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog

MonkeezOnFire

Adventurer

Pauln6

Hero

MechaTarrasque

Hero

Azzy

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MonkeezOnFire

Adventurer

MechaTarrasque

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