D&D 5E High Level Shopping

CapnZapp · Jan 17, 2019

SubDude said:
Ok, why use a Silver Standard?

(Feel free to point me to an existing discussion.)

It basically boils down to personal preference.

There is nothing wrong with a gold based game world economy. There just isn't anything particularly right about it either

This is not a big issue - Dungeons & Dragons is pretty far removed from real history, no matter what color your coins are.

But since switching to silver is so exceedingly simple (just replace the "g" with "s" in "gp"

, it is a small and easy nod towards verisimilitude!

CapnZapp · Jan 17, 2019

Quartz said:
There are some good things there. I like your sets of items. I did spot a couple of issues: you have an Ioun stone give a +1 Proficiency Bonus - that's already in the DMG - and some items (e.g. the magma one) need charges applied.

The leather armour that's the first item looks very cool, but I would suggest Resistance instead of DR 5. KISS applies. DR 5 makes the wearer basically immune to mooks.

Thank for your reply - wow, actual mechanical feedback!

The Ioun Stone is the DMG item. I realize I wasn't clear - this is an actual handout to my players. It contains a mix of items from pure RAW via tweaked RAW to complete homebrew.

I would like to know more about what charges you think the Magma Robe need? (It already contains one set of charges so I don't understand what kind of charges are missing)

KISS is a worthy principle, but in this case there is a precedent in the PHB. The Heavy Armor feat (don't remember exact name) that provides DR 3 (to use your d20-inspired terminology).

The reason I used this (beside wanting to) is that it makes the armor more valuable, which is what I want for a high-level shopping list. That is, "DR" (if we can call it that) can be combined with resistance. It stacks. That is, you still benefit from something like the stoneskin spell. If the armore provided "stoneskin" against blunt and slashing, it would simply be less desirable, less rare, less high level.

Cheers, Z

CapnZapp · Jan 17, 2019

DEFCON 1 said:
I also use a silver standard more for evoking a feeling than any concern about reality.

This.

While I could argue "silver is more realistic than gold" I won't, because D&D is not even close to "real" anyway. I honestly don't think the "realism" argument is particularly fruitful. D&D is not HarnMaster or even Warhammer FRP. In the default game of D&D there will be wild amounts of treasure, and quickly too.

I think the most honest and best argument is "I like a silver-based economy better"

It means that the mundane purchases you do at the very lowest levels is in "mundane" silver, and that the very first goblins or bandits you defeat might have a bit of cash, but that would be silver (or copper) coins.

It simply becomes something of a deal when you find your first pot of real gold, and bring it back to the tavern in your starter town.

Quartz · Jan 17, 2019

CapnZapp said:
Thank for your reply - wow, actual mechanical feedback!

DR 5 is far too much for Karajah's Life & Death; even Heavy Armour Master provides only 3 points. So the wearer is all but immune to being attacked by all non-piercing 1d4 weapons and all but immune to 1d6 weapons. Absent stat bonuses, of course, which mooks are not likely to have. I see your point about DR vs resistance, though.

With regard to the Robes of Magma, on re-reading I missed the paragraph about charges. Sorry about that, but the text is rather buried. Given the nature of the item, should it not give immunity - or at least resistance - to fire damage? You might also allow attunement by a cleric worshipping a fire or earth deity.

While I'm here...

The Animated Shield - it's simply a must-have for any fighter who uses a 2H weapon or two weapons. I'm not a fan of animated shields anyway - they destroy the shtick of sword-and-board fighters. You might want some text about what happens if someone tries to grab it, stomp it, or otherwise targets it. And how about a more definitive side-effect? Like it teleports away? Or it only works for those not in heavy armour? (On the real-life basis that shields were discarded on the battlefield after the introduction of plate armour.)

CapnZapp · Jan 17, 2019

The armor is good, yeah. But I don't think it will be picked - the competition is pretty fierce!

(In isolation it's pretty good, but still it's effectively only +2 armor. Heavy Armor Master is a feat you can take at much lower level, so +2 DR doesn't feel particularly overpowered at high level. And it only protects against non-magical attacks. Which is increasingly uncommon at this level, at least in my games. And finally, Rogues need all the help in combat heavy campaigns like me... If you want to reduce its DR in a campaign with less magic, though, I understand.)

The Robes: check out the Investure of Flames spell!

The Animated Shield is pretty standard - if the DMG didn't go into details, so be it.

Guest 6801328 · Jan 17, 2019

Coroc said:
It is historically accurate and makes much more sense.

Whoah....and here I thought Forgotten Realms (and other settings) were made up out of thin air.

Man, the things they don't teach in school.

CapnZapp · Jan 18, 2019

Elfcrusher said:
Whoah....and here I thought Forgotten Realms (and other settings) were made up out of thin air.

Man, the things they don't teach in school.

This is exactly why I made a reply saying "the best argument is that I like silver-based better". It avoids the snark, and keeps the focus on what I started the thread for: to discuss the high level items I offer for your inspiration

Horwath · Jan 18, 2019

SubDude said:
Ok, why use a Silver Standard?

(Feel free to point me to an existing discussion.)

Silver standard is great and it values gold more, so you do not need to carry much around.

I did it like this:

If we look at today prices of copper,silver,gold and platinum and make a coin of same size(volume) and start with copper, then

silver is almost exactly 100 copper
gold is 145 silver, this can be minted in smaller coins to get ×100 value
but platinum is only 0,75 gold.

We can say that in middle ages or and d20 realm platinum is worth a lot more, but best solution would be:

1. Silver standard

2. One silver is 100 copper

3. One gold is 100 silver or 10.000 copper coins.

4. Gold coin is about 70% volume of silver/copper

5. If we take 9g for silver(50 coins per lb) as standard we have:

Copper coin 7,7g
Silver coin 9,0g
Gold coin 11,6g(70% volume of other 2 coins)

or if we want same weight coins for calculating bulk, then we go with standard 9g per coin and we get

Silver(standard): 9g, 1× volume, or if we go with 2 euro coin that is 2,2mm thick as standard we get diameter about of 2,2cm

Silver: 9g, 22*2,2mm
Copper: 9g, 24*2,2mm
Gold: 9g, 16*2,2mm

Coroc · Jan 18, 2019

Horwath said:
Silver standard is great and it values gold more, so you do not need to carry much around.

I did it like this:

If we look at today prices of copper,silver,gold and platinum and make a coin of same size(volume) and start with copper, then

silver is almost exactly 100 copper
gold is 145 silver, this can be minted in smaller coins to get ×100 value
but platinum is only 0,75 gold.

We can say that in middle ages or and d20 realm platinum is worth a lot more, but best solution would be:

1. Silver standard

2. One silver is 100 copper

3. One gold is 100 silver or 10.000 copper coins.

4. Gold coin is about 70% volume of silver/copper

5. If we take 9g for silver(50 coins per lb) as standard we have:

Copper coin 7,7g
Silver coin 9,0g
Gold coin 11,6g(70% volume of other 2 coins)

or if we want same weight coins for calculating bulk, then we go with standard 9g per coin and we get

Silver(standard): 9g, 1× volume, or if we go with 2 euro coin that is 2,2mm thick as standard we get diameter about of 2,2cm

Silver: 9g, 22*2,2mm
Copper: 9g, 24*2,2mm
Gold: 9g, 16*2,2mm

Your approach is cool for rp also iprefer the mediaeval value ratios of gold and silver and copper which were 1:20:240
That was still visible with former British currency 1£ being 20 shillings and a shilling 12 pence.
Realism or not, it sounds plain stupid that every day tools and weapons should cost 100 gold this makes gold almost worthless and the lesser coins almost junk.

CapnZapp · Jan 19, 2019

Coroc said:
this makes gold almost worthless and the lesser coins almost junk.

No, the actual value of having "junk" copper is that it is the only way to present a "real" dragon hoard or similar.

If you want your characters to find an actual heap of gold, the only way to implement it well up in the levels is to have it be a heap of copper, with a thin layer of gold pieces on top. (A small mountain of actual gold is what you find at tier IV if at all, even in the most Monty Hallian of campaigns. That is, of course, assuming the DM knows anything about density and volume...

Also: if you want your characters to find more wealth than they can carry.

I actually had this problem (the first one). In a silver-based economy, hoards will either have to be physically smaller or you need to invent a new "junk" coin valued at 1/100th of the baseline. (Tin pieces or some such).

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